Sanchin/punching/conditioning

**Devil** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:32pm

Originally Posted by hl1978

I already punch with the elbow next to the body, this is just a bit more of a rotation of the elbow, I think a picture might be helpful to show the orientation.

Yes, take a picture. That will convince us.

Better yet, write a 5000 word essay. Surely, the more thought you put into it, the harder you will be able to punch.

**LI GUY 1** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:35pm

I was just trying to say that rather than call their God a dick, we should instead show them and explain to them how our God could kick their God's ass.

Kata does suck and punch with the elbow close to the body. Maybe because your fist hits at a different angle(palm facing up in this case) it feels different to you, when in reality its hitting just as hard?

**hl1978** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:37pm

Originally Posted by devil

By the way, I read some of Upyu's article. Then I fell asleep due to boredom.

The problem I see is not necessarily with his (or your) ideas. You may search and search and find some deeper physiological truths while pontificating about how power is generated, or while analyzing sanchin kata in every nauseatingly minute detail. But you will have wasted your time during this pursuit of the holy grail of body mechanics.

Why? Because you don't become a capable fighter by intellectualizing everything. You become a capable fighter by hitting stuff, hitting people, getting hit, grappling against fully resisting opponents, resistance training, cardio training, etc. It's that simple. It's not rocket science.

Belive it or not, I mostly agree with you, but if I can think about the mechanics when not training (and certainly to some extent while training), I think it is usefull.

Upyu's article is actually two parts, I dont think the second part has been published on the front page. The first is a how/why things work the second are the exercises to develop the skills discussed in the first part. I will see if there is a payoff or not at the next sabaki challenge in DC.

Basically I have had an external approach to martial arts for 13 years and now Im trying to incorporate interal type training. I have a feeling down the line you will see more MMA type people include it as some sort of edge.

**Devil** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:38pm

Originally Posted by LI GUY 1

I was just trying to say that rather than call their God a dick, we should instead show them and explain to them how our God could kick their God's ass.

Kata does suck and punch with the elbow close to the body. Maybe because your fist hits at a different angle(palm facing up in this case) it feels different to you, when in reality its hitting just as hard?

Yeah, I hear you. It just happens to be a no-lube type of day for me.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:41pm

Originally Posted by devil

I want to get popular by parroting popular opinions!

Okay, we love you.

**hl1978** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:42pm

Originally Posted by LI GUY 1

I was just trying to say that rather than call their God a dick, we should instead show them and explain to them how our God could kick their God's ass.

Kata does suck and punch with the elbow close to the body. Maybe because your fist hits at a different angle(palm facing up in this case) it feels different to you, when in reality its hitting just as hard?

I can put my palm facing up and still rotate the elbow further, as i get the shoulder involved a bit. If you do that with a bent arm (or if you have it straight out shoulder hight) you notice a larger depression in the elbow than before. When I make contact Im trying to maintain that.

I am concerned though if it is detrimental to turn the elbow so far.

I agree it definatly feels different (and I notice more power going into the guy holding the shield), and I appreaciate your thoughts on the subject.

**Devil** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:52pm

Originally Posted by hl1978

Belive it or not, I mostly agree with you, but if I can think about the mechanics when not training (and certainly to some extent while training), I think it is usefull.

Upyu's article is actually two parts, I dont think the second part has been published on the front page. The first is a how/why things work the second are the exercises to develop the skills discussed in the first part. I will see if there is a payoff or not at the next sabaki challenge in DC.

Basically I have had an external approach to martial arts for 13 years and now Im trying to incorporate interal type training. I have a feeling down the line you will see more MMA type people include it as some sort of edge.

I know what you're saying. I'm not suggesting you have to be some dumb-ass meathead to be a fighter. It's just that excessive overthinking is, to me, one of the biggest indicators of crap martial arts, ie: BBT, Aikido.

There's nothing wrong with giving yourself a mental edge. But (A) is kata really the best way to do that, and (B) is that really where you need to be spending your time?

Do you have a solid, well-rounded game? Is your striking sharp? Do you work well in the clinch? Do you have solid throws and takedowns? Do you have dependable takedown defense? Do you have a slick ground game? How's your strength and cardio?

If you are weak in any of these areas, I'd say you will be better off spending your time working on those areas, rather than practicing ANY kata.

If you're doing all those things and body mechanics is what you want to spend your non-training time thinking about, go for it, I guess. But even then, I think you'd be better off visualizing yourself using the techniques that you're practicing.

**Devil** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 1:56pm

Originally Posted by eyebeams

Okay, we love you.

I speak the truth, according to Devil. If it's popular, it's popular. If it's not, it's not.

P.S. **** you.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 2:06pm

Truth is something of substance. You could say, "The technique's bollocks because of X," or that "You could do it out of the kata and not waste your time on it with Y," but you haven't done either of these things.

Me, I'd say that it's better traying this out with a bag and pads to se how it compares. In my experience the sinking elbow is a good way to add a little bit more power in a short distance.

I'd say that I don't like sanchin because it teaches counterproductive habits, like tensing antagonist muscles when moving, even though you want those mostly relaxed to that they don't put a break on agonists (the muscles actually doing to work). It's not great for your blood pressure either.

**alex** · Posted On: 9/06/2006 2:11pm

i remember seeing a irl demo of a bunch of guys doing a "sanchin" kata and thought "wow, these guys would get fucked up in a fight with that kind of ****"

then i realised it was just interpretive dance not fighting and clapped with everyone else