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  1. #21
    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer. Join us... or die

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    W. Yorks, UK
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    5,009
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo has lost a lot of it's pragmatism, it's all about competition now and most clubs gear training heavily towards that.

    If you want to learn this stuff you have to take the initiative yourself unfortunately.

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indiana
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also compete under USJA. I'm getting ready for a competition in lansing, MI. (Which I'm not sure if it's sanctioned under usja or usjf, I'll check later). I was told by my instructor that I should not be using armbars because they are not allowed in white to green. It didn't sound right to me, but I figure with all the other stupid rules, maybe they made this change. I'm the only person in the club over 18 who is a competitor (the rest are all old men or 16-17 years old). So maybe his comment wasn't directed at me, or he is just thinking about kids rules.

    My point however is that if you can't use it in competition, then what is the point of learning it? The techniques will be under trained and almost never used because most people focus on competition. If competition rules would losen up some then it would make sense to train more techniques. I'd personally just like ref's who know what is going on, and possibly get down on the mat and look at the action.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Queens, NY
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    3,008
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    My point however is that if you can't use it in competition, then what is the point of learning it? The techniques will be under trained and almost never used because most people focus on competition. If competition rules would losen up some then it would make sense to train more techniques. I'd personally just like ref's who know what is going on, and possibly get down on the mat and look at the action.
    I think the answer may be to not just crosstrain but also "cross compete" (it's my phrase now, and if you use it you have to acknowledge me). So you have Judo guys competing in grappling events, trying to win by submission and BJJ guys in Judo competitions trying to win by ippon.

    Edit: I know this happens already, but what I see more of is the Judo guys competing in grappling events. While the BJJ/Grappling guys competing in Judo trying to win by Sub, not by ippon. Which at first I thought was a bad idea, ie. not helping them with their takedown game as much as it could. But the fact that Judo has a time limit on the ground, I think it could help the pure grappler on his submission game.
    Last edited by ojgsxr6; 9/08/2006 9:55am at .

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    465
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I also compete under USJA. I'm getting ready for a competition in lansing, MI. (Which I'm not sure if it's sanctioned under usja or usjf, I'll check later). I was told by my instructor that I should not be using armbars because they are not allowed in white to green. It didn't sound right to me, but I figure with all the other stupid rules, maybe they made this change. I'm the only person in the club over 18 who is a competitor (the rest are all old men or 16-17 years old). So maybe his comment wasn't directed at me, or he is just thinking about kids rules.

    My point however is that if you can't use it in competition, then what is the point of learning it? The techniques will be under trained and almost never used because most people focus on competition. If competition rules would losen up some then it would make sense to train more techniques. I'd personally just like ref's who know what is going on, and possibly get down on the mat and look at the action.
    As far as I know,white-green can use armbars, at least under USJA rules, as long as they are over 17. Armbars, and I think submissions in general, are not allowed for under 17. They are often taugh for this age group in some clubs, because I guess they plan to eventually cross over and begin to compete under rules that allow them.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,147
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't find any rule that says white-green can't use armbars, so I'll have to say my instructor was wrong. It's a mute point though, I'm currently looking for a new club because of gas prices. I just found out notre dame has a judo club and I'm going to see if non-students can train there.

  6. #26
    BomberH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    181
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kano intended Judo to be multi-purpose:

    Self Defence, Competitive activity and Physical Culture (i.e. form of P.E.)

    Judo as a physical culture was the most important aspect of Kano's success. Judo became an important part of physical education in the Japanese schools and Universities. This enabled Judo to grow, strengthen and become a true international success story. If Judo had not been adopted by the Japanese Education authorities then it would not have spread so rapidly and widely.

    For the above reason Judo could not be an MMA style activity. Kano in his genius didn't want to loose all of the dirty tricks, high risk techniques and Atemi waza he learned from JuJitsu so he put them into compliant safe Kata training. I know Kata training doesn't develop skills as efficiently as randori/sparring but a little bit doesn't hurt.

    Despite not being practise in sparring, Judoka who do train in the Kata (alongside hard randori training) can make the kata techniques work. I've submitted two BJJers with the leg lock from Katame No Kata. It's also not that difficult to bash an opponent in the face (from Kata) prior to grabbing them and slamming them with a throw (from Randori).

    Still if a Judoka really wants to develop great Atemi waze was they should do boxing, kyu kushin kai etc. If they want to develop wrist locks then try Aikido etc.

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