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  1. PoleFighter is offline

    Professional Swede

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    Posted On:
    9/01/2006 5:12pm


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, lot's of good info here. Thanks guys. Unfortunately we don't have Gatorade in Sweden (I drank it a few times in the US though), but I'll see what the alternatives are.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  2. JabCrossHook is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2006 5:23pm


     Style: Kickboxing, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy8s
    You may not like the taste but the results are undeniable.
    In my experience, the result is me feeling sick. The same thing happens with that Lucozade energy stuff - all the sugar in it makes me feel bad. I certainly could not drink either after intense cardio or, god forbid, during it. However, Isostar seems better to me. This is probably because I buy a drum of powder and can then add water/product as I like. I normally add a bit more water to counter the sugar content and make it a bit more dilute.

    I normally just drink water before, during and after cardio sessions, though. Seems so more "natural" to me :) For weight training, it's water throughout and then whey afterwards.

    I'm not arguing with the science side. I actually had to look at sports drinks in a biology paper I did earlier this year. If it tastes like crap and makes me feel like crap, though, I don't want to use it.

    [/I]There is a great discussion about this in the vanderbilt link. Essentially the taste of water quinches your thirst too fast causing athletes to underhydrate. The sugar in sports drinks causes you to become thirsty faster and thus properly hydrate.
    I will check the discussion - it's a topic that interests me. As I say, I'm not doubting the use of sports drinks, or saying that Isostar is superior. It probably isn't, but it's the only sports drink I can find which doesn't taste like liquid sugar.
  3. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/01/2006 5:50pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy8s
    Most medical doctors do not suggest drinking a protein shake turing training for the same reason you wouldn't be munching on a Philly Cheese Steak during a workout. When you are working out your body sends massive ammounts of blood to the muscles, brain, heart and other vital organs to compensate, move ATP etc. If you eat anything it requires you to send blood to the stomach to transport the nutrients that are being absorbed. Eating takes a suprising ammount of blood to effectively digest anything.

    The reason he would feel nausea the first few times is his body would be screaming "WTF are you eating for while you're training!?" He would eventually get used to it but he would be robbing his muscles of vital oxygen and energy transportation from all of the blood he rerouted. This is why people say to wait 1hr after exercise before you have a shake. Not only are your insulin levels at their peak but the "pump" is gone and you now have the extra blood to digest. Google this, I know nothing of Dr. Berardi but I know there are hundreds of doctors that would love to beat him over the head for suggesting that.

    Also, Myoplex is great. That's what I used to use. As TDDM said though, you;'ll be spending a LOT of money for a very little benefit. Unless perhaps you're post-40 in which case you'll possible see a little more benefit because of a slightly deteriorated digestive system, but still it probably won't be worth the money. Hence why I used peanutbutter and ice cream. Protein + small-chain sugars + fat = yum. It tastes better and doesn't cost nearly as much.
    That's funny that you mention that, because I do feel more benefit from Myoplex, not that I am in my late 40's- maybe it's the glutamine. Gatorade rules, though, for drinking during a work out- especially, later in the workout. The first post mentioned doing a grueling 40 minute warm up- really a conditioning workout. From what I have read, its' better to warm up- work technical skills, roll, then finish you conditioning at the end. Why, because your body will be fresh and have the best coordination, as opposed to being exhausted, then try to concentrate on motor skills, etc. If you're competing- you're not going to drain yourself 40 minutes, then have a match, and you certainly won't have that much time to warm up if you are into self defense. I tend to look at those kind of work outs as Darwinian, weeding out the weak, not necessarily building the skills for all different types of atheletes. **** it, though, I just read it in a couple of books, so what the **** do I know....
  4. Lazy8s is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/01/2006 6:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @JabCrossHook: Dude, definately if it makes you feel like crap don't drink it. I am a HUGE believer that your body is telling you what it needs. Now, there is a difference between a dorito craving and eating because you're bored. Every once in a while I'll be making a sandwich and I'll think "Damn, I REALLY want to put some honey/colby jack cheese/whatever on it" and I do. If I get a craving to down half a bag of chips I usually go get a slice of bread or a banana or something and see if I'm just hungry. But if I just ate dinner and I'm having a HUGE craving for BBQ chips I'll go eat some.

    I'm not a huge fan of gatorade myself. I drink basically water with some orange juice tossed in. I sounded kinda like a Gatorade salesman there and I apologize. Do I drink the stuff? Yeah if I know I'm REALLY going to push or something I'll try to drink a bottle of gatorade while I work out or play a game (soccer, racketball, w/e) then it's right back to water. I just hate how I always am more thirsty.

    If it makes you REALLY feel sick though perhaps you're (hypo/hyper)glycemic and you don't know it? I'm neither and I don't know which one would cause the sick feeling but both are an inability of your body to keep the proper ammount of sugars in your blood. The doctor can do a test (though I hear it's rather unpleasant) and see. If so it's something you should keep a careful eye on during training. Again, WebMD is a great place to look for symptoms. Anyway, I am DEFINATELY not a doctor just a huge nerd when it comes to nutrition and I hardly follow most of my own advice so don't feel like I'm preeching either.

    Anyways, this kind of discussion is awesome to be having. Discussing who has the bigger dick/better martial art can be fun, but health and fitness should be a common ground no matter what you do.

    @new2bjj: I don't know why myoplex was my favorite. At the time (about 5 years ago) it was the best on the market from the research I did. I think I liked it because it had the lightest taste. I tried some GNC brand stuff and some Met-RX and both made me want to hurl and after I drank the shake I felt like I was going to explode. Be careful though, they are a child company of Bill Phillips (does Body 4 Life) and alot of their stuff is just a load of crap they try to market to the B4L competators. Generally they will have like Protein Powder, then there will be Super De Duper Enhanced Protein Powder 2 Ultimate Platinum Powder of Pwnage. The second kind is allllllllmost the same as the first but it costs 3 times as much but it has tauring or something in it and you think "wow it MUST be worth it!". That's the crap to avoid. It's what they market to the competators and say "It's more now but you might win $1million USD!!!".
    Last edited by Lazy8s; 9/01/2006 6:08pm at .
  5. JabCrossHook is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2006 6:26pm


     Style: Kickboxing, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy8s
    @JabCrossHook: Dude, definately if it makes you feel like crap don't drink it. I am a HUGE believer that your body is telling you what it needs. Now, there is a difference between a dorito craving and eating because you're bored. Every once in a while I'll be making a sandwich and I'll think "Damn, I REALLY want to put some honey/colby jack cheese/whatever on it" and I do. If I get a craving to down half a bag of chips I usually go get a slice of bread or a banana or something and see if I'm just hungry. But if I just ate dinner and I'm having a HUGE craving for BBQ chips I'll go eat some.
    Yeah, I agree. Bottom line is, if you don't like the taste, don't drink it.

    I'm not a huge fan of gatorade myself. I drink basically water with some orange juice tossed in. I sounded kinda like a Gatorade salesman there and I apologize. Do I drink the stuff? Yeah if I know I'm REALLY going to push or something I'll try to drink a bottle of gatorade while I work out or play a game (soccer, racketball, w/e) then it's right back to water. I just hate how I always am more thirsty.
    I love water. It tastes great to me. Sometimes I think I'm strange... everyone else loves coke and all the other fizzy crap, but I'd much rather drink water. Doesn't water and a pure fruit juice make a hypertonic drink (or hypo-, I forgot :p)? We touched on this on a SportsCoachUK course I think.

    If it makes you REALLY feel sick though perhaps you're (hypo/hyper)glycemic and you don't know it? I'm neither and I don't know which one would cause the sick feeling but both are an inability of your body to keep the proper ammount of sugars in your blood. The doctor can do a test (though I hear it's rather unpleasant) and see. If so it's something you should keep a careful eye on during training. Again, WebMD is a great place to look for symptoms. Anyway, I am DEFINATELY not a doctor just a huge nerd when it comes to nutrition and I hardly follow most of my own advice so don't feel like I'm preeching either.
    If I drink Lucozade sport (basically an isotonic drink similar to gatorade) whilst playing sport, it makes me feel very bloated, lethargic and generally sick. Gatorade just makes the sicky feeling. Whilst I know I'm not going to heave, I still feel pretty bad. I don't think it's a medical condition, I just think it's down to me not liking the taste. Just seems like a bunch of sugar (which I know it is :p) and has the same effect as eating a whole plate full of pasta when I'm not hungry. :(

    Anyways, this kind of discussion is awesome to be having. Discussing who has the bigger dick/better martial art can be fun, but health and fitness should be a common ground no matter what you do.
    Yeah, I agree. We all know I have a bigger dick, so what would be the point of debating? ;) Seriously though, I like these discussions too. they're better when people are actually talking of the science behind it (like you tried to do :p) as opposed to "I hate it", "yeah me too", but it's fun nonetheless.
  6. Bujo is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2006 6:58pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing, TKD, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy8s
    Most medical doctors do not suggest drinking a protein shake turing training for the same reason blah blah blah blah blah blah......
    You don't have to take my word for it. There are those smarter and more knowledgeble than myself.
    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/..._nutrition.htm
    After using his advice for four weeks I went back to the usual 2 liter jug of water during my conditioning training and didn't like the switch back at all. I much prefer to 2:1 carb : protein shakes for all my training purposes these days.
  7. Lazy8s is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2006 3:05pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^^ Yeah I saw the one guy that suggests this. Do a quick google search and you'll pull up a ton of links to the contrary. I posted at least a couple here. At most the supporting research says it doesn't affect you adversly or beneficially. If you read the link I posted that specifically discusses his study it explains in the first paragraph that he used 2 entirely different drinks, not just adding protein to one, and then declared the protein drink superior. It would be like putting Firestone tires on a Ferrari and racing a Pinto with Michelin(spelling?) and declaring the Firestone tires superior.

    If you like it though go for it. To each his own and all that.
  8. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2006 10:29am


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Oh man, you just hit the nail right on the head. Price is the biggest problem with supplements. It's good stuff, but that **** ain't cheap at all :(

    The cheapest shake I've found that works well (at least for me) for a post-workout drink is 'Liquid Nutrition Plus' at CVS pharmacies (informational internet link thingie here

    I buy the 6-pack of them for 7-something, so each drink comes off around $1.25 each. Now, notice in the CVS website that there is 'Liquid Nutrition Plus' (which is what you want) and 'Liquid Nutrition' (which is for pussies IMO.)

    350 calories, 13g (26%) of protein, 11g (17%) of fat, <2% of cholesterol, 440mg (13%) of potassium (as much as a banana, you need the potassium man), 50g of carbs... and most importantly, it has maltodextrin.

    It took me forever to find this brand, because, as you said, shakes are not cheap at all. I combine this brand with the myoplex drinks (which are more than twice the price.)

    That's what I do to control the expenses regarding this ****. The CVS shakes may not be the top of the line, but are still good, and provide an economical alternative :new_smile
    Props to you El Macho. Thanks to this information I may finally be able to afford recovery drinks again.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2006 1:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^^ Anytime dude. Getting the right nutrition for sports ain't cheap - either they are overpriced, or the more affordable options are not well known.

    On another, yet relevant note. Glutamine and aminoacids.

    For the last couple of months, I've had problems with fatigue and an inability to sleep properly. I ate well, took my shakes, worked out and tried to sleep 7-8 hours, but no avail. I even dropped salsa dancing.

    Fortunately I came accross a nutrition forum in myspace (one of the very few reedeeming features of that wretched place.) And after posting a few questions on this issue, I got a few answers that made me realize a glaring error in my diet:

    I was not taking glutamine and aminoacids. Glutamine may be optional but aminoacids, should not. Anyways, I started on Sunday, and guess what? No more exhaustion, and I've been able to sleep well. Even 6 hours of sleep now are sufficient for me.

    I do not believe this is a placebo effect. The only change I've done is the addition of glutamine and aminoacids on my diet, and results in the last couple of days have been incredible.

    I hope that tidbit is helpful for you guys.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Lazy8s is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2006 7:27am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah the amino acids = pre-digested protein. How many meals do you eat per day? One common mistake people make is they keep eating larger and larger meals 3 times a day to try and help but they don't realize they can't digest all of it. If it's working for you go with it for sure, but you could perhaps add or even replace it by eating 4-6 times a day instead of 3.

    Now, you have to be careful here because it is possible you can eat too much and gain weight, but tossing in a ham sandwich mid-morning can work wonders. Doing a similar thing in the afternoon can be great as well. If you find yourself too full by lunchtime then eat a little bit less over lunch. The trick is to spread the ammount that you eat out over the day. Not only does this help regulate your insulin levels (less fatigue, don't feel like a nap in the afternoon anymore etc) it also allows your body more time to digest which upps your absorption rate.

    The amino acids are not a bad option at all expecially if you feel them helping. I wouldn't doubt the usefullness of that kind of suppliment for the most part. The other suggestion that could help is break up your protein shake. Drink half, then an hour later drink the other half of it. Since it takes an hour to digest liquid anyways you won't be losing out on the increased absorption from post-workout, but you will be allowing your body to take longer and absorb more.
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