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  1. Teakie is offline

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    Aug 2006
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 12:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    JKing, we need to have a serious talk!

    "Runs the gamat. If you want kajukenbo though, dont expect to find it outside of hawaii. My school is pretty good, but had things been a bit differant a mere 3 years ago the school would have went towards the mcdojo zone instead of a more fight oriented class. The same story is playing out all over the kajukenbo world and unfortunatly most of the schools are going the money road.

    For the most part, I dont suggest kaju to my friends and though one day I do aspire to teach it, it will probably be under a differant name (branch name or something) simply because i wouldn't want to be related to some of the idiots out there.

    The main problem is that people dont want to train the way it was taught anymore. It used to be "full contact drills. You miss the block in the drill, you get punched in the face" but now too many people are catering to wussy audiences too afraid to get hit. I am lucky in the fact that the core group of students want to train in the good manner and so we are catered to... but once we are all gone that school is going to go downhill fast. Its the same old story.

    It actually makes me very sad to see this. Whenever I go visit any of the old school guys its like going to visit someone to beat me to a pulp. Its awesome. Whenever I go to visit any newer school its like I might as well go to a TKD school. Al Dacaoscos is a pretty awesome martial artists with incredible skill and fighting prowess. his first school, while he taught there, mirrored that. Now I wouldn't take his wun hop kun do to save my life.

    I've (and several of my class mates and instructors) have embraced things like MMA in order to best protect kajukenbo as it should be. heck, MMA is the perfect atmosphere for it and the style itself is pretty much an "mma" I guess. Thats why i went to the throwdown and tried to show what I had - no previous mma experience at all, just some underbelt kajukenbo. Now I've hit MMA sparring every week, and we are starting a MMA oriented sparring class 2 days a week I can hit along with my normal class. One thing MMA (and the throwdown) has shown me is that I personally have a weakness in my training, but that kajukenbo can still fit in that environment -I really hope I can put kajukenbo to the standard it once was, and every martial art should be. The problem is are only a handful of kajukenbo guys who think this way, and there are so many others out there.

    Check out the school. If their only redeeming quality is that they teach BJJ then dont even bother. I chose my school because it is a really good school, with good instructors and (what i like) a pro-mma attitude.


    I could write up a paper on how many problems, and how easy the solutions to kajukenbo are - but until I personally become better and able to back up with my hands everything I say with my mouth I can't do much.

    ** end kajukenbo rant

    Heres some answers to some the questions here.


    the BO is chinese boxing, another word for kung fu sometimes. However, Adriano Emperado was taught boxing and judo growing up, and another guy was a local waleterweight boxing champion. Emperado was an avid kenpo guy, but after he left Mitosi he was known for using boxing in his mix very often.


    Kajukenbo does have SEVERAL internal conflicts - mainly being over training methods. Though the old methods were excellent, there was alot of stupid things attached to it. For example, you could not even talk to your instructor about other martial arts things (how do I do this? what about this) outside of class unless you bought him a full dinner or a present. Minor, but still lame. Another was that instructors of other instructors would often coerse money from their past students schools. that one is a major one that causes alot of rifts. There are several other bullshido things too that dont make sense but people were forced to do them anways. it is (very partly) to blame for the new schools that suck."

    The above is an entry made by JKing last year. I have read this post and many others that he has written. I personally know who JKing is and where he has trained and currently trained. I, in fact, was one of his instructors. I no longer teach at the school he attends, for various reasons, we won't get into that. But needless to say I know the experience JKing has had and I DO NOT believe he has the right or knowledge of Kajukenbo to make the statements he's made.
  2. Steve is offline
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    The gift that keeps on giving

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    May 2004
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    Seattle, WA
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    4,205

    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 12:39am

    supporting member
     Style: On hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do I post here or on your duplicate thread???

    Delete one of them please.
  3. Mr. Jones is offline
    Mr. Jones's Avatar

    resident sick ****

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    Dallas
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    3,309

    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 12:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who the hell is Jking and what are you bitching about?
    カンフー
  4. Mr. Jones is offline
    Mr. Jones's Avatar

    resident sick ****

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:02am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just read it over one more time and I understand it now.

    No one was thinking about this. This was from last year for christ's sake. And you sound like a bullshit Kajukenbo instructor for brining this up.
    カンフー
  5. wagamichi is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:06am


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!



    When You absolutely have to hide a body...try Alaska.
  6. Mr. Jones is offline
    Mr. Jones's Avatar

    resident sick ****

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He's trying to shut up a poster on bullshido because he was talking bad about the nitty gritty details about Kajukenbo.

    WHICH WAS A FUCKING YEAR AGO.

    Dude shut the **** up. You sound even more bullshit because you brought this up again.
    カンフー
  7. Teakie is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4

    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:40am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    JKing, we need to have a serious talk!

    Posted by JKing---------

    "Runs the gamat. If you want kajukenbo though, dont expect to find it outside of hawaii. My school is pretty good, but had things been a bit differant a mere 3 years ago the school would have went towards the mcdojo zone instead of a more fight oriented class. The same story is playing out all over the kajukenbo world and unfortunatly most of the schools are going the money road.

    For the most part, I dont suggest kaju to my friends and though one day I do aspire to teach it, it will probably be under a differant name (branch name or something) simply because i wouldn't want to be related to some of the idiots out there.

    The main problem is that people dont want to train the way it was taught anymore. It used to be "full contact drills. You miss the block in the drill, you get punched in the face" but now too many people are catering to wussy audiences too afraid to get hit. I am lucky in the fact that the core group of students want to train in the good manner and so we are catered to... but once we are all gone that school is going to go downhill fast. Its the same old story.

    It actually makes me very sad to see this. Whenever I go visit any of the old school guys its like going to visit someone to beat me to a pulp. Its awesome. Whenever I go to visit any newer school its like I might as well go to a TKD school. Al Dacaoscos is a pretty awesome martial artists with incredible skill and fighting prowess. his first school, while he taught there, mirrored that. Now I wouldn't take his wun hop kun do to save my life.

    I've (and several of my class mates and instructors) have embraced things like MMA in order to best protect kajukenbo as it should be. heck, MMA is the perfect atmosphere for it and the style itself is pretty much an "mma" I guess. Thats why i went to the throwdown and tried to show what I had - no previous mma experience at all, just some underbelt kajukenbo. Now I've hit MMA sparring every week, and we are starting a MMA oriented sparring class 2 days a week I can hit along with my normal class. One thing MMA (and the throwdown) has shown me is that I personally have a weakness in my training, but that kajukenbo can still fit in that environment -I really hope I can put kajukenbo to the standard it once was, and every martial art should be. The problem is are only a handful of kajukenbo guys who think this way, and there are so many others out there.

    Check out the school. If their only redeeming quality is that they teach BJJ then dont even bother. I chose my school because it is a really good school, with good instructors and (what i like) a pro-mma attitude.


    I could write up a paper on how many problems, and how easy the solutions to kajukenbo are - but until I personally become better and able to back up with my hands everything I say with my mouth I can't do much.

    ** end kajukenbo rant

    Heres some answers to some the questions here.


    the BO is chinese boxing, another word for kung fu sometimes. However, Adriano Emperado was taught boxing and judo growing up, and another guy was a local waleterweight boxing champion. Emperado was an avid kenpo guy, but after he left Mitosi he was known for using boxing in his mix very often.


    Kajukenbo does have SEVERAL internal conflicts - mainly being over training methods. Though the old methods were excellent, there was alot of stupid things attached to it. For example, you could not even talk to your instructor about other martial arts things (how do I do this? what about this) outside of class unless you bought him a full dinner or a present. Minor, but still lame. Another was that instructors of other instructors would often coerse money from their past students schools. that one is a major one that causes alot of rifts. There are several other bullshido things too that dont make sense but people were forced to do them anways. it is (very partly) to blame for the new schools that suck."



    The above is an entry made by JKing last year. I have read this post and many others that he has written. I personally know who JKing is and where he has trained. I, in fact, was one of his instructors. I no longer teach at the school he attends, for various reasons; we won't get into that. But needless to say I know the experience JKing has had and I DO NOT believe he has the right or knowledge of Kajukenbo to make the statements he's made.

    JKing says.......

    "If you want kajukenbo though, dont expect to find it outside of hawaii."


    I know exactly what JKing's experience is and - #1) He has had insufficient experience to know what real Kajukenbo is.
    #2) He has been exposed to far too few schools to make such a statement.

    Jking began training about 4 years ago, he hasn't traveled extensivly, trained with multiple instructors, or (in my opinion being a former instructor of his) even formed a solid base of Kajukenbo for himself.

    JKing says.....

    "For the most part, I dont suggest kaju to my friends and though one day I do aspire to teach it, it will probably be under a differant name (branch name or something) simply because i wouldn't want to be related to some of the idiots out there."


    Once again, this statement cannot be taken at face value due to JKing's insufficient training history. The "idiots" that he is refering to is somewhat vaugue given the fact that he has very minimal exposure to Kajukenbo schools outside his own.

    JKing says......

    "Al Dacaoscos is a pretty awesome martial artists with incredible skill and fighting prowess. his first school, while he taught there, mirrored that. Now I wouldn't take his wun hop kun do to save my life."

    I'm sorry JKing.......WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE??? You are speaking of one of the pioneers of Kajukenbo. You have hardly no REAL Kajukenbo experience, and I would like to know who all these "old school guys" you are visiting are!!! When you are talking about Sifu Al's first school are you referring to when he trained people in his driveway in the early sixties, 25 years before you were born? Some one needs to give you a serious history lesson. It is horrible Martial Etiquette to talk in this manner about someone who has been doing Kajukenbo since before you were even thought of.

    JKing says.....

    "I've (and several of my class mates and instructors) have embraced things like MMA in order to best protect kajukenbo as it should be. heck, MMA is the perfect atmosphere for it and the style itself is pretty much an "mma" I guess."


    Having been an instructor at the school JKing is describing untill very recently, I can say that the training he describes was noth authorized by anyone of real instructor status. As far as Kajukenbo being a perfect fit with MMA consider the following: MMA matches take place in a padded ring with padded gloves. The emphasis is on competition, not survival. Kajukenbo techniques such as eye gouging, fish hooking, groin grabbing/striking, among others, are outlawed in MMA events but emphasised in Kajukenbo self defense and even sparring. His comments on this subject once again demonstrate his lack of broad- base knowledge and experience.

    JKing says.........

    "I really hope I can put kajukenbo to the standard it once was, and every martial art should be. The problem is are only a handful of kajukenbo guys who think this way, and there are so many others out there."


    It should be obvious by now that anything that needs fixing in the Kajukenbo system will not be fixed by JKing. He is not in a position to evaluate, much less address, any "flaws" that exist in the Kajukenbo system.

    JKing says......

    "I could write up a paper on how many problems, and how easy the solutions to kajukenbo are - but until I personally become better and able to back up with my hands everything I say with my mouth I can't do much. "

    So why then do you continue to open your mouth?
    What JKing fails to realize is that a forum such as this should be used carefully by those of low experience, to avoid giving the general public a misperception of the way things really are. He compunds this error by claiming experience far above what he actually has, which lends a false air of authority that could lead the less informed astray.


    JKing says....

    "For example, you could not even talk to your instructor about other martial arts things (how do I do this? what about this) outside of class unless you bought him a full dinner or a present. Minor, but still lame. Another was that instructors of other instructors would often coerse money from their past students schools. that one is a major one that causes alot of rifts. There are several other bullshido things too that dont make sense but people were forced to do them anways. it is (very partly) to blame for the new schools that suck."


    Once again (sigh) JKing is speaking in generalities, which seem to be based on stories that he has overheard, not on actual experience. He seems to be disrespecting the tradition of Martial Etiquette in Kajukenbo, something he has never been exposed to directly or knows the least thing about. JKing seems to be quick to praise "old school" Kajukenbo, but then attacks the martial code that makes old school what it is.



    In conclusion, JKing's post would not normally require a response based on the ignorance level of the person posting, but due to the experience level he claims, I felt it necissary to set the record straight.

    A word to JKing, if you are reading this, some points to consider:

    #1) A great deal of litteral blood sweat and tears went into forming the system that you trash so easily. It is inexusably rude and offensive to disrespect the practitioners and senior instructors of this art as you have in this and other posts.

    #2) The general public that reads this or any other of your posts, will accept what you have said based on the way you have misrepresented your creditials and experience level. You have done a great diservice to the Kajukenbo system and it's practitioners.

    #3) You have posted at great length about the techniques, history, and philosophy of Kajukenbo without suffecient experience to back your theories up. In the first line of your post you state that real Kajukenbo can't be found outside of Hawaii. Since you have seen 0.001% of the Kajukenbo in North America, do you have any idea how presumptuous and offensive a statement like that is?

    #4) By now, I am sure you know who is writing this. The hippocritical attitude you have shown in this and other posts, including your disdain for point sparring ( which you presently teach and train in on a regular basis at your school), and your disrespectful remarks about the head instructor's father, who founded the school you now are part of, are inescusable and need to stop! You are in a position of authority at your school, (in my opinion given to you far to early in your training and that I do not blame you for) and this is a responsibility that should be taken very seriously. Your comments and posts up to this point indicate that you need to do some soul searching, in my opinion, before you lead other down the wrong path.


    Respectfully,

    Layne and Missie Davisson











  8. Mr. Jones is offline
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    resident sick ****

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:57am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And we are suppose to care why? Use pms if you want to talk directly to him.
    カンフー
  9. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    More like, Dramajukenboohoo, m i rite?!
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  10. Tef-the-Persian is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 1:59am


     Style: Hashashin.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow. Teakie's mastered colors. I haven't mastered colors. I am such a n00b.
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