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  1. Stick is offline
    Stick's Avatar

    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 12:42pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wish MMA was a graded class here at OSU.

    Really like Iscariot's ideas, but perhaps instead of UFC you could use ADCC tapes to keep the course more focused on BJJ.
  2. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 1:02pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just checked out the 'Mat's the have for use here today. I'm going to have to talk to them about getting proper equipment. The smell comming off of those things was too much to even bear the thought of standing on them, let alone rolling.

    My instructor is interested in co-teaching the class with me, we just have to work out the details and make sure he has time to do it. So hopefully they will aprove new mats and this will all come together by winter term.
  3. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 2:18pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dai Tenshi
    Really like Iscariot's ideas, but perhaps instead of UFC you could use ADCC tapes to keep the course more focused on BJJ.
    Whatever you guys think, I don't do BJJ, and am still new to viewing Combat Sports, so I might not have the best examples. The idea was for them to demonstrate knowledge they may have taken in from the course, but not have had enough mat time to demonstrate physically.

    It can also be done with a huge group of people as a written exam, or even god forbid multiple choice, which'd probably save some time if you get a huge group.

    Regardless, good luck with it.
  4. G8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 3:45pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand your interest in spreading the gospel, but I gotta say, I really don't think approaching BJJ/sub grappling in a quasi-academic way is a good idea. Without some reasonably extensive alive training--much more than you could possibly fit into 14 one-hour classes largely devoted to discussion, written work etc.--I can't see how a student would get any deeper understanding than he would from a good text (say, John Danaher's stuff in "Mastering Jiu Jitsu") & vids of UFC 1-4. It's inimical to the philosophy of BJJ to limit technique instruction to controlled circumstances, but I'd be very concerned about the injury/crappling potential if ANY rolling were involved, period. I know community colleges teach introductory courses like this for a lot of sports, but grappling ain't softball. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
  5. OldDog53 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 3:58pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you have an opportunity to require a text (or to recommend one), as a newbie I find Gene Simco's "Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Basics: Mastering The Essential Techniques" which is only $15.72 at Amazon ($24.95 list) a steal, it comes with a great DVD. This book was recommended in one of the bullshido threads and it is helping me to see how the positions and techniques fit together (I joined a bjj class where most of the other students are one year ahead of me, so I have a lot of catching up to do!). The book assumes you know nothing, but moves on quickly to stuff that would be very useful for an introductory or "survey" course.
  6. Tenebrous is offline
    Tenebrous's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:06pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    I understand your interest in spreading the gospel, but I gotta say, I really don't think approaching BJJ/sub grappling in a quasi-academic way is a good idea. Without some reasonably extensive alive training--much more than you could possibly fit into 14 one-hour classes largely devoted to discussion, written work etc.--I can't see how a student would get any deeper understanding than he would from a good text (say, John Danaher's stuff in "Mastering Jiu Jitsu") & vids of UFC 1-4. It's inimical to the philosophy of BJJ to limit technique instruction to controlled circumstances, but I'd be very concerned about the injury/crappling potential if ANY rolling were involved, period. I know community colleges teach introductory courses like this for a lot of sports, but grappling ain't softball. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
    It doesn't sound like he's trying to be academic. It sounds like he's trying to make it fit into an academic environment.

    That said, totally in agreement about it needing to be a live class. If it's all books and deconstruction there's not much point really. Gotta have the buggers wrestling.
  7. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:07pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    I understand your interest in spreading the gospel, but I gotta say, I really don't think approaching BJJ/sub grappling in a quasi-academic way is a good idea. Without some reasonably extensive alive training--much more than you could possibly fit into 14 one-hour classes largely devoted to discussion, written work etc.--I can't see how a student would get any deeper understanding than he would from a good text (say, John Danaher's stuff in "Mastering Jiu Jitsu") & vids of UFC 1-4. It's inimical to the philosophy of BJJ to limit technique instruction to controlled circumstances, but I'd be very concerned about the injury/crappling potential if ANY rolling were involved, period. I know community colleges teach introductory courses like this for a lot of sports, but grappling ain't softball. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
    I know a guy who runs a 14 week judo class at a major university near me. I plan on speaking with him and seeing what he feels is the ups and downs. Tipically you get students who stick with it and grow, and kids who take it for an easy attendance credit. I dont see bjj being any different than judo in this regards. Of course from talking to him I realize this course would have to be paired up with an on-campus club which I have been intending to get started for some time anyways. Remember the purpose is to get them into a real club, not to make it a 14 hour self defense course. I know a few people who are too intimidated to walk into a MMA gym. Maybe something like this would loosen them up and give them the confidence they need to give it a try. It is also important to point out I will not be giving the instruction. The instruction will be given by a very good instructor that I train under, I'm sure he will be able to keep the students safe. I have seen everyone who comes into our club roll from day one, and I've never seen any serious injurys.
  8. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:09pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebrous
    It doesn't sound like he's trying to be academic. It sounds like he's trying to make it fit into an academic environment.

    That said, totally in agreement about it needing to be a live class. If it's all books and deconstruction there's not much point really. Gotta have the buggers wrestling.
    I agree 100%, it is important to have live rolling. I audited a TKD class on campus today, they had 'touch' sparing. I'm going to find out what kind of liablity contracts we have written up.

    I've stressed the the faculty that this is similar to high school wrestling and is a contact sport with risk of serious injury. I was told that would be fine.
  9. G8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:25pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I dont see bjj being any different than judo in this regards.
    well, BJJ is much more focused on submissions & chokes, and you know that's what every single student is gonna want to see, limited instructional time or no. I'd be concerned that they'd start throwing half-assed triangles & RNCs on each other & their friends, even if they aren't shown how, and probably while watching Ultimate Fighter and drinking a couple of 40s.

    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I know a few people who are too intimidated to walk into a MMA gym. Maybe something like this would loosen them up and give them the confidence they need to give it a try.
    to tell you the truth, I don't think anyone who's too intimidated to step into a real BJJ or MMA gym is going to have the stones to progress anyways. it's good to keep the gene pool clean.
  10. OldDog53 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:36pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    I understand your interest in spreading the gospel, but I gotta say, I really don't think approaching BJJ/sub grappling in a quasi-academic way is a good idea. Without some reasonably extensive alive training--much more than you could possibly fit into 14 one-hour classes largely devoted to discussion, written work etc.--I can't see how a student would get any deeper understanding than he would from a good text (say, John Danaher's stuff in "Mastering Jiu Jitsu") & vids of UFC 1-4. It's inimical to the philosophy of BJJ to limit technique instruction to controlled circumstances, but I'd be very concerned about the injury/crappling potential if ANY rolling were involved, period. I know community colleges teach introductory courses like this for a lot of sports, but grappling ain't softball. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
    As a beginner who has already been injured 3 times in four classes (nothing serious; well, I'll find out if I have a muscle sprain or a cracked rib this Thursday) I have real doubts about free sparring unless you have at least a purple or brown belt to keep the newbies from hurting each other or even themselves. One of the big things that keeps me going is the fact that we have very experienced instructors who keep an eye on things. I think you'd better have that at your junior college class before letting people go "wild."

    I have to admit that "controlled sparring" (assume a position and work from there using a limited number of techniques, or just one - essentially drilling against resistance) seems safer, but "uncontrolled sparring" is a LOT more fun and mindblowing.

    It only took me only a couple of classes with uncontrolled sparring to realize that everything I'd seen on tv or in demonstrations (tai chi, pa qua, karate) is complete b.s. and the only arts that really matter are "alive" arts that require you to tussle with an uncooperative partner restricted by the fewest number "rules," and THEN also keeping a constant wariness against stuff that is outside those rules but could still happen in a real fight (like striking and breaking). BJJ is awesome in this context, and I am already grateful to my instructors who tell me - don't lock your hooks on a back mount - why? - you'll get your ankles broken, vs. instructors in other "arts" who promise to get back to you in a couple of years as to why you are drilling certain moves.

    I also realized, as soon as a guy who outweighed and outmuscled me got me to the ground and sat on me, that size and strength will ALWAYS win on the street unless I work hard and get my skills up with BJJ. I'm grateful for that alone, it dispelled a lot of arrogance about my self-defense capabilities.

    Just flailing around won't cut it against an opponent with more weight/strength/esperience, and contrary to the outlook promoted by most "martial artists," I no longer have confidence that a "well trained" martial artist has much hope of keeping a moderately determined street fighter at any safe working distance.
    __________

    I can deal with you kicking my butt because I don't know ****. I can't deal with you kicking my butt because I am spazzing or gassing.
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