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  1. Antifa is offline
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    Sin Dios! Sin amos!

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 7:24pm

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     Style: Starting Over... Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Reframming the discussion:Being in actual "real" fights prove you're a great fighter.

    Okay the discussion was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wong Fei Hong
    "As long as we are dispensing with myths on this site: Let's try to kill this one as well...

    An actual "fight" proves very little as well.

    Lets say that Person A has been sparring (I know - forbidden word - but go with me here) with top level MMA guys for the past 5 years -- and Person B has been in 3 *real* fights at a bar (against COMPLETELY drunk guys - where the confrontation lasts less than 10 seconds) - who has a better handle on "fighting"? Person A or Person B.

    A real *fight* with someone who is at your ability level (God forbid that we line up against someone who isn't the village idiot) proves you were better at fighting that time. It doesn't mean you will win the next fight with him - and it doesn't mean you will win the next fight against someone else.

    So what is the training for then? If you can't get *it* from sparring -- and I just made the case for not getting *it* from real fights... then what is... *it*?

    Just a question that needs to be addressed..."
    I'm reframming this discussion because I hate either-or arguements. Situations in the real world are never as simple as A-or-B.

    So.... the discussion I would like to frame is this:

    1) We all accept and agree that the heavier and more frequent your sparring the better off you are (your a "better" fighter). Well if you dont agree to this you can get flamed by somebody with alot more seinority around here than I.

    Having been in more barfights than I can be proud of (because there is nothing praiseworthy about getting drunk and fighting with people you got no *real* beef with) I'd like to add some dimmessions to this:

    In the many and varied opinions of the posters here what is the relative value of the following to each other and to someones overall experince:

    1) 1 months training with light or no sparring

    2) 1 months training with heavy/full contact sparring

    3) 1 month in jail

    4) 1 month in maximum secuirty prison

    5) 1 month of police or military service (in a combat MOS)

    6) 1 barfight

    7) 1 streetfight with a competant sober opponent (streetfight meaning you get assraped/curbstomped/hospitalized etc ie its not over if your KO'd)

    8) 1 "schoolyard" fight (ie its over when your KO'd or you cry "uncle" etc)

    9) ACTIVE participation in a full scale riot

    10) 1 Amature fight (including the training SPECIFICALLY for THAT fight)

    11) 1 Proffessional fight (including the training SPECIFICALLY for THAT fight)

    So please, discuss:

    a) The relative value of each of these things TO EACH OTHER

    b) The differences between these things that make training for them (where applicable) different from each other

    c) feel free to add more catagoreies or questions or perspectives if you feel they better frame this.


    Thanks for the consideration and (hopefully) input,
    Antifa

    PS been having spotty access for a couple of months but for thoose (few ) of you who missed me: I'm back.
  2. RunningDog is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 11:14pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The best r34l training is being in jail, and having knife fights to the death with your left hand tied to your opponent's. This is because that's how it goes down in the stre3t, man.

    The next best after that would be participation in a riot, obviously, because throwing bricks/molotov cocktails/tables and chairs replicates the brutal and dangerous reality of a str33t f1ght.

    If you can't train either of the above, I suggest you kill yourself now, you will never be able to defend yourself in teh deadly real world.
    :qgaraduat
  3. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 11:44pm

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     Style: Starting Over... Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    The best r34l training is being in jail, and having knife fights to the death with your left hand tied to your opponent's. This is because that's how it goes down in the stre3t, man.

    The next best after that would be participation in a riot, obviously, because throwing bricks/molotov cocktails/tables and chairs replicates the brutal and dangerous reality of a str33t f1ght.

    If you can't train either of the above, I suggest you kill yourself now, you will never be able to defend yourself in teh deadly real world.
    :qgaraduat

    okay smartass......

    just because its near goddamn 1 am and I'm tired and bored....

    how do suggest training tossing cocktail chairs and tables?

    is their a suggested technique?

    a regulation weight?

    a dojo that teaches it?

    I keep trying it at home but I need a 3rd job to support the massive about of furniture I destroy practicing my table-as-shuriken justsu... an y suggestions?

    in merry ole england where you are in participation in quaint little footbal riots contigent on the ability to pitch a table? or just a fit when your team looses?
  4. RunningDog is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 11:54pm


     Style: Rehab

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Antifa
    okay smartass......

    just because its near goddamn 1 am and I'm tired and bored....

    how do suggest training tossing cocktail chairs and tables?

    is their a suggested technique?

    a regulation weight?

    a dojo that teaches it?
    You misunderstand. You need to throw molotov cocktails, and tables and chairs, not "cocktail chairs".
    There is no regulation weight, but it's very important to train in an Alive manner.

    when your team looses?
    No offence but that's "loses" rather than "looses", that typo is a pet hate of mine.
  5. Sun Wukong is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2006 1:07am


     Style: Boxing/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This isn't really qualified very well. Fights in bars are no less dangerous than fights outside of bars.

    The rioting thing is also kinda screw ball: rioter's don't really know what they are doing. They are just fucking **** up for no real reason because it's easier to get away with **** during total pandemoneum.
    A lie gets half-way around the world before the truth has time to get it's pants on. - Winston Churchhill
  6. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2006 8:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Starting Over... Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    You misunderstand. You need to throw molotov cocktails, and tables and chairs, not "cocktail chairs".
    There is no regulation weight, but it's very important to train in an Alive manner.
    right.... and wrong...

    A molotov made from a 40 is too heavy, doest fly right. the round apple juice bottles that martinelli used to make were far and away the best.

    IMHO :

    Martinelli Bottles > 16 longneck beer bottles > 40s

    Never trained in an alive manner... But I did work in a recycling yard. kinda hard to train in an alive manner with an illegal explosive.

    But I have used the damn things and... there needs to be a leap forward in their effectiveness... Their okay... but... not as effective as one might expect.

    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    No offence but that's "loses" rather than "looses", that typo is a pet hate of mine.
    do what you must
  7. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2006 8:20am

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     Style: Starting Over... Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chris_ketchens
    This isn't really qualified very well. Fights in bars are no less dangerous than fights outside of bars.

    The rioting thing is also kinda screw ball: rioter's don't really know what they are doing. They are just fucking **** up for no real reason because it's easier to get away with **** during total pandemoneum.
    one the first point Chris... not all bars are created equal. but the Dynamics of the different kinds of fights are different. didnt say more or less dangerous, just different, so I was wondering what people thought about the realitive value of thoose (as yet unquantified) differences. I know what I think. Wanna see where other people are at. So if you got the time... expand please

    Gotta disagree with you on the second point. Cant count the number of riots I've been in (not easily at least) and sometimes, especially where the riot is related to sports, your dead on.

    But where the riot is related to politics, your not so. Being as this is the one area where I can actually claim VAST experience, at political riots the the rioters (or a subset thereof) are often, but not always, trained for the event and/or cohereant and discilpined and have achieveable goals for the event.

    BTW thought you lived in China. You move back to the USA?
  8. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2006 9:31am

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     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chris_ketchens
    Fights in bars are no less dangerous than fights outside of bars.
    Bouncers break up fights in bars*... Chavs stomp on you during fights outside of bars. It's just like that in Merry Ol' England. I'd say it's safer to fight inside a bar.

    *although said bouncers may choose to apply a discretionary remedial kicking.
  9. john joe is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2006 9:42am


     Style: Muay Thai/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    bouncers; a lot of them substitute 'restrain and escort' with 'engage and destroy'.
  10. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2006 9:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by john joe
    bouncers; a lot of them substitute 'restrain and escort' with 'engage and destroy'.
    Or, punch first, hide the cctv tape later...
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