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  1. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:00pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Where to learn stand-up grappling?

    Many apologies if this is a :beatdead: thread, search function didn't help me.

    I train with a bouncer whose stand-up grappling is awesome. He's only trained in WT, but must have learnt extra technigues on the job. His speciality is to totally control people without going to ground himself.

    What styles specifically teach this? It doesn't seem to be a strength of BJJ.
  2. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i vote for judo. even if you can't figure out how to lock them up standing, you can dump them on their heads.

    and i *know* there's some good judo on the south coast of england.

    (of course, most of the british judoka i know are also aikidoka, and are only too happy to put me in weird wristlocks at any opportunity. being judoka, they actually make them work.)
    Last edited by pauli; 8/10/2006 12:08pm at .
  3. RunningDog is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:07pm


     Style: Rehab

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i vote for judo. even if you can't figure out how to lock them up standing, you can dump them on their heads.

    and i *know* there's some good judo on the south coast of england.

    My BJJ school is held in a judo hall, I'll try it out for a few classes.
  4. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:08pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo, Greco-Roman wrestling, deadlifts.
  5. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:11pm


     Style: Rehab

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    Judo, Greco-Roman wrestling, deadlifts.
    Good point. The bouncer in question is 230lbs at least, I think it helps a tad.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    Many apologies if this is a :beatdead: thread, search function didn't help me.

    I train with a bouncer whose stand-up grappling is awesome. He's only trained in WT, but must have learnt extra technigues on the job. His speciality is to totally control people without going to ground himself.

    What styles specifically teach this? It doesn't seem to be a strength of BJJ.
    Hmmm, not really. Stand-up grappling is generally not the focus in BJJ, but every once in a while there is a lesson in how to apply SOME of them standing up. .ie. duck a sucker's punch, take his back, RNC him, step on the back of his knee so that he kneels, kick him there again if he tries to get up, etc, etc.

    Hell, three weeks ago exactly, we went over a kimura done to an opponent on the ground while you are standing... sort of... actually one semi-kneeled. Anyways, you get the picture.

    Another example: say you do Judo. You can transition a successful throw into an armbar or a wristlock while you remain standing. As a matter of fact, if you secure someone's arm, there is nothing that can stop you from doing stuff that is not being allowed in class .ie. twisting fingers :P

    Imagine: You throw your opponent. He is on the floor, on your feet, you are standing, and you have a hold of his left arm. You can armbar it. You can put pressure in the elbow while bending the **** out of his wrists, etc, etc, etc.

    It is my impression that if one gets decent enough at BJJ or Judo, one will have enough skills to attempt a submission while standing and have a good chance of success. The operative phrase is being decent enough or skilled enough IMO.

    Once you do stuff over and over (the good practial stuff that is) it won't take long for you to figure out things on your own... this is all assuming your average misbehaving customer doesn't train at all.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JUDO UBER ALLES!

    'nuff said.
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  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    JUDO UBER ALLES!

    'nuff said.

    But ... but ... but ... his WT bouncer friend has the anti-grapple!
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

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  9. RunningDog is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 12:34pm


     Style: Rehab

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    RNC him, step on the back of his knee so that he kneels, kick him there again if he tries to get up, etc, etc.

    Hell, three weeks ago exactly, we went over a kimura done to an opponent on the ground while you are standing... sort of... actually one semi-kneeled. Anyways, you get the picture.


    Imagine: You throw your opponent. He is on the floor, on your feet, you are standing, and you have a hold of his left arm. You can armbar it. You can put pressure in the elbow while bending the **** out of his wrists, etc, etc, etc.


    Once you do stuff over and over (the good practial stuff that is) it won't take long for you to figure out things on your own... this is all assuming your average misbehaving customer doesn't train at all.
    All good advice. Actually a position I seem to end up in a lot is kneeling on a grounded opponent's head, while doing an armbar on him.
  10. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2006 1:13pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    Many apologies if this is a :beatdead: thread, search function didn't help me.

    I train with a bouncer whose stand-up grappling is awesome. He's only trained in WT, but must have learnt extra technigues on the job. His speciality is to totally control people without going to ground himself.

    What styles specifically teach this? It doesn't seem to be a strength of BJJ.
    If you're in Britain, you're almost certainly going to find judo is your best bet for stand-up grappling, as it's widespread and has some athletes at a fairly high standard ; wrestling is rarer and at a weaker level over here.

    And I've known quite a few judo dans who were capable of downing me neatly and hard and staying standing, without coming close to letting me practice any of my BJJ-influenced ne-waza. It's hard (in my experience) to control anyone who knows what they're doing without throwing though, unless there's a really huge strength gap.
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