Staying on the ground

**Beatdown Richie** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 7:51am

Finger in the eye? Depends where you start from. If the grappler has a reasonably good position to begin with and keeps his cool, he might just turn his head and move it away from you. If you extend your arm to follow, you're in risk of an armbar. If not, you've just lost the gouge, and may have your arm grabbed and twisted anyway.

I haven't tried biting and pinching, but I don't see how they would do anything except piss the other guy off. Unless you bite off a hand or something...

You're right about the going to the ground thing.
If you're skilled, lucky, and adjust to the takedown at the right moment, you have a decent chance of getting guard or at least half guard. Then you hope that you practiced your sweeps enough ;-).

**Stold3** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 8:45am

You ever wonder why all TMAs have a stereotypical focus on "balance" training at first? If you always had perfect balance and were trained to maintain it under all circumstances(takedowns, etc.), it should take some effort to destroy your balance. This day and age, I hardly see any TMAs focusing on balance training.

**Beatdown Richie** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 8:58am

That's a big IF... I trained traditional aikido for a couple of years, and a lot of emphasis was put on the stance and being balanced and everything. It turns out that this particular stance may be okay if you have enough distance from the opponent, but it gets you a footsweep or a single leg takedown in seconds if you try it in the clinch, and no one ever mentioned that.

**cyrijl** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 9:16am

I love the "i'll just bite him" response from non-groundfighters. I used to think that. But now after taking BJJ for a few months i realize it is not all that easy. My instructor can take me down and tie me up on the way. I usually don't have my hands free. And the last thing you want to do against a grappler is to stick your hands way out reaching for something. That's one of the first htings you learn not to do.

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i can do anuything as long as i am surrounded by twenty friends and the berimbau is playing my song

**NSLightsOut** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 9:42am

Amp, if you get taken to the ground without sprawling, the best position you can be in is the guard. Both legs wrapped around opponent's midsection, hands controlling the arms or the head, depending upon how much clothing you have on. Lots of submissions and sweeps from this position, as well as strikes.

The guy taking you down will almost always get some sort of top position, whether it be inside your guard, north-south or side control. Dirty **** like biting or eye gouging from bottom will get you nothing but a lot of pain. You're just not going to get up that easily.

I suggest you spar with some wrestlers, judokas, sambists or BJJers in order to find this out for yourself. Judging by the questions you have asked, it appears that you haven't done this.

**Southpaw** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 11:58am

I suggest you spar with some wrestlers, judokas, sambists or BJJers in order to find this out for yourself. Judging by the questions you have asked, it appears that you haven't done this.

I have sparred with many wrestlers, and only on BJJer. I'm asking the questions to get some ideas. I'm not a grappler. I don't do BJJ. I do train some ground fighting. I have fought people who were much better on the ground than me. I have beaten most of them...by getting my ass off the ground, or not ever going down.

Though some of the responses are good ones, that vast majority of them are along the lines of "it's easy to keep them on the ground."...or "you need to spar"...

I have a sneaky suspicion that the vast majority of you have never been in a REAL (high school fights not included)fight.

Incidently, while sparring is important, the way in which you spar is even more important. The VAST majority of martial artists who say they spar do it in an uneffective manner.

In any case, thank you all for your insight.

**cyrijl** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 12:15pm

someone who is determined to keep you down probably can. we were doing double leg takedowns a couple of weeks ago. everytime this guy shot in at me he would miss my legs but on the way down grab my ankles. it became a standstill...i could not kick him (balance) and i couldn't bend over to lunch hum (balance)...best you can do is fall on top.

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i can do anuything as long as i am surrounded by twenty friends and the berimbau is playing my song

**mikus** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 12:44pm

Yeah, you have to actually know how to escape in order to escape from someone who's good. Dirty tricks aren't gonna negate good training. If you have good training, it might be worthwhile to add some dirty tricks in to help you use the actual escape using sound principles, but never use dirty tricks on their own. It'll just piss the guy off.

"Winona Ryder? Going inside her." - MC Paul Barman

**Punisher** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 12:52pm

I am the last one to rely on the lack of skill or incompetence of my opponenet, but all you guys that are saying that is hard to get off the ground have plenty of training to keep someone there, most people in this world do not.

So like I said, if you're like Amp and me, and feel I don't want to be on the ground, you need to train how to escape and get up. It is easy to get out of a full mount it the guy is an idiot and doesn't know how to do it properly.

It goes back to Amp's orginal question can a guy of equal size hold someone on the ground who wants to get up, yes. But the opposite is also true. It boils down to who has better training.

All you guys that say that you could hold me down to ground in a fight have a good chance of being right, but I have almost NO CHANCE of holding you down on the ground if you want to get up.

<marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>

**cyrijl** · Posted On: 7/17/2003 12:57pm

I guess what I’m really asking is: What type of techniques would a grappler use to keep a quick, strong opponent on the ground if that opponent REALLY wants to get up?

i'd stab him

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"you know as much about logical reasoning as a sea slug knows about weaving friendship bracelets" -thomasaaron