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  1. colonelpong2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 7:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=colonelpong]
    Quote Originally Posted by bujutsuboy
    Basically think of a Karate chop (Haaaayyyyyyyaa!) done by pointing your elbow at the bad guy and then throwing your hand out at him, a little bit like a back hand in tennis. These guys think this is just about unbeatable!

    QUOTE]

    Sounds like the **** they tried to teach us in the army. i'll elaborate on the whole thing later if i have time

    heres a link to my thread on this subject, if anyone wants to take a peek

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ht=COMPARISONS
  2. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 8:38pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=colonelpong]
    Quote Originally Posted by bujutsuboy
    Basically think of a Karate chop (Haaaayyyyyyyaa!) done by pointing your elbow at the bad guy and then throwing your hand out at him, a little bit like a back hand in tennis. These guys think this is just about unbeatable!

    QUOTE]

    Sounds like the **** they tried to teach us in the army. i'll elaborate on the whole thing later if i have time
    Please do, I'd be very interested to hear it. Do you mean you're currently in the army, or in the past? At least your army tests their systems (I'm assuming you're American) and change things when they don't work.

    If what you were taught resembled WWII combatives, it'll still be light years ahead of the nonsense I was taught (and dare I say it, teaching) when I was in the army! It is completely worthless, most of the striking stuff were taken from TKD and we were learning and teaching things like single outer knife hand block in back stance to palm heel strike in forward stance, like in TMA class. With kicks thrown in. We were also teaching basic throws like hip throw, shoulder throw, reverse hip throw, reaping throw etc. Full contact sparring was done TKD style, but without the throws, how useless is that.

    And some set "pattern" weapon disarms for knife, rifle and pole (pole??!?) I can't for the life of me imagine why we needed to defend against a pole, is that something you come across a lot on the battlefield?

    It is hilarious now that I think back on it.
  3. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 8:47pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bujutsuboy
    PPlate - maybe so.

    I liked the Cestari stuff enough when I got it. I just progressed (in my view) onto better things. We all go on our own path.

    The key points to me are 1) we do have more than a week to learn it, so why limit the art to the same stuff as those that DID only have a week and 2) if they are going to rate it so mightily highly, they're writing cheques that their art can't deliver.
    Bujutsuboy,

    This line got me thinking:

    >>
    I liked the Cestari stuff enough when I got it. I just progressed (in my view) onto better things. We all go on our own path.<<

    Perhaps you're far further up the experience ladder than me and have seen and experienced things I have not, so I better open my ears to listen.

    It's like when I was watching the SCARS tapes and going to forums asking people for specific defenses against a side kick, or a back kick, etc. and people were gently trying to tell me that specific responses like that will not work in a "live" situation but I was not getting it, because of my frame of reference, how I was taught unarmed combat in the army and my limited experience.

    So perhaps you and others have reason to believe that the Cestari stuff is not as good as I think it is, that I don't yet have the frame of reference to see.

    Any good tapes to recommend for self-defense scenarios that are not covered in regular MMA training? I have heard good things about Karl Tanswell's STAB knife programme and was going to check it out.
  4. colonelpong2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 9:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kickboxing

    --
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    [QUOTE=PPlate]
    Quote Originally Posted by colonelpong

    Please do, I'd be very interested to hear it. Do you mean you're currently in the army, or in the past? At least your army tests their systems (I'm assuming you're American) and change things when they don't work.
    .
    heres the link to the the thread i started containing the info on the crap they taught us.
    And no. im not americaan. Im a kiwi

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ht=COMPARISONS
  5. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 10:01pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=colonelpong]
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate

    heres the link to the the thread i started containing the info on the crap they taught us.
    And no. im not americaan. Im a kiwi

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ht=COMPARISONS
    cool, i'll check it out!

    I love your country, so beautiful, and the people are wonderfully nice and polite (except in the capital city! :D) Was there for my honeymoon and totally enjoyed it. Been wanting to go back there to rent a motorcycle for a biking holiday.

    Have you met or trained with Geoff "Tank" Todd? Heard some good things about him as well.
  6. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 11:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with bujutsuboy for the most part. It looks like we've lurked on the same message boards. The techniques in WW2 Combatives are ok. Especially when viewed in their context. MAC is the natural evolution of the FAS material imo. I reviewed a great book on the MAC material here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ht=book+review
    If you want basic SD derived from combat sports, but without the sport specific techniques and with a combatives strategy. The material in Greg Thompson's book is it imo.

    I've also reviewed Cestari's videos online somewhere. I couldn't find it here though. Their production quality sucks, the material is just ok.

    The FAS material makes for too small an "SD toolbox" imo. It doesn't take too much more effort to build better skills.
  7. colonelpong2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 11:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=PPlate]
    Quote Originally Posted by colonelpong

    Have you met or trained with Geoff "Tank" Todd? Heard some good things about him as well.
    i've never met him, but i have heard the name in the past
  8. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2006 11:43pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RoninPimp
    I agree with bujutsuboy for the most part. It looks like we've lurked on the same message boards. The techniques in WW2 Combatives are ok. Especially when viewed in their context. MAC is the natural evolution of the FAS material imo. I reviewed a great book on the MAC material here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ht=book+review
    If you want basic SD derived from combat sports, but without the sport specific techniques and with a combatives strategy. The material in Greg Thompson's book is it imo.

    I've also reviewed Cestari's videos online somewhere. I couldn't find it here though. Their production quality sucks, the material is just ok.

    The FAS material makes for too small an "SD toolbox" imo. It doesn't take too much more effort to build better skills.
    Thanks for the book review, will check it out.

    What's MAC btw?
  9. bujutsuboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 5:33am


     Style: Self Protection

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For self protection I would recommend the following.

    Geoff Thompsons "Dead or Alive" book. Within those pages are great "soft skills" that will help you stay away from any potetnial trouble in the first place.

    Geoff Thompson's "The Fence" video. It lasts about an hour, and has two guys standing there..... with only one doing the talking. But listen to what he is saying..... no matter how often you play it you'll find something new.

    Richard Dimitri's "The Shredder." Now he rates it more highly than I do, but it is still a great tool that helps youget/regain the advantage in a real go. I've used it myself and it works fine in most instances).

    Ideally you d need some kind of base from which to learn self protection fighting techniques, be it boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ or whatever. But the knowledge in the above goes a long long way.

    The problem with WW2 Combatives is that they want to feel that they already have the "best" method, so they glorify in staying static - "There is nothing new under the sun" is a favourite saying.

    Maybe there isn't. But the world is changing all the time, and we've got to change with it.
  10. bujutsuboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 5:35am


     Style: Self Protection

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MAC -

    http://www.moderncombatives.org/pages/1/index.htm

    The WW2 guys class this as BJJ, and decry it's use for soldiers. Now there is some BJJ in there, but there are also other influences.

    The advantages of it are :-

    It is competitive, so people actually train it.

    It is alive, so you work against resisting opponents and

    It makes ya aggressive!
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