Do any of the grappling styles teach defense against weapons?

**pnwnorseman** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 4:27pm

As I understand it, grappling arts generally don't teach much in the way of weapons use. I was curious if they taugh anything in the way of weapons defense? It seems the street/bar fight is the standard scenario for using your martial art. Since these two venues would likely be abundant with improvised weapons, it seems logical to teach some sort of defense against general weapons like staves, knives and clubs. This question is mainly derived from the idea of a grappler fighting a kendo fighter. How the **** does the grappler deal with this scenario? Yeah ONCE you get in close enough you have like 99% chance to win, but getting there is the battle. And try to remember that while there aren't nearly as many swords and bo staves around as there used to be, pipes, pool cues, broken bottles and many other improvised weapons immitate those styles of attack.

**AlienGunfighter** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 4:34pm

Knives, sticks, and guns. Solution? Cross-training. Not all martial arts cover all situations.

Hence, my new BJJ classes.

**Lebell** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 4:42pm

Originally Posted by pnwnorseman

As I understand it, grappling arts generally don't teach much in the way of weapons use. I was curious if they taugh anything in the way of weapons defense? It seems the street/bar fight is the standard scenario for using your martial art. Since these two venues would likely be abundant with improvised weapons, it seems logical to teach some sort of defense against general weapons like staves, knives and clubs. This question is mainly derived from the idea of a grappler fighting a kendo fighter. How the **** does the grappler deal with this scenario? Yeah ONCE you get in close enough you have like 99% chance to win, but getting there is the battle. And try to remember that while there aren't nearly as many swords and bo staves around as there used to be, pipes, pool cues, broken bottles and many other improvised weapons immitate those styles of attack.

Hey asshole, not everyone trains martial arts to use it in a fight.
Only scared insecure people do and they never get any good with it.

bye.

**twKoxinga** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 4:44pm

oh crap, not this again...

when you're grappling you can somewhat control the guy, so maybe you can lessen the damage inflicted if you can dominate them, however, this isn't really what grappling trains for.

but also keep in mind, almost no arts will protect you if you're attacked by someone wielding a weapon unless its a live art, and even that isn't a guarantee. Waving a bo staff or sword around in dead patterns and no resistance or sparring probably won't help too much either.

oh yeah, stop asking stupid questions.

**bitparity** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 6:08pm

Pnw, name any martial art that will defend against gun at a range of 4 meters.

**pnwnorseman** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 6:14pm

Wow so assholes are out in force today. Well allow me to retort. I understand not everyone uses martial arts as self defense, but again that is not what I was asking was it? I was very carefull to phrase my question to only include not only grappling but grappling as a form of self defense because it was the most obvious style with lack of weapons training. And I used the street/bar fight scenario because that is what most people use as their theoretical scenario setting for fights on this board. I enjoyed the swinging a bo staff or sword in a dead pattern comment. What pattern a fucking triangle? Am I chasing you with a pool cue tracing the outline of a fucking trapazoid? . What am I training in my garage by myself in your mind? Is Star Wars Kid my fucking mentor here? You don't need to be an expert with something to use it effectively. Also twKoxinga I understand that there are no garuntees in fighting, but isn't that why you take martial arts? To better your chances of winning by learning how to fight in different ranges, styles, with different tools? Silly me asking if your art had a certain element of combat in it. I should know better.

Also the "when you're grappling you can somewhat control the guy, so maybe you can lessen the damage inflicted if you can dominate them, however, this isn't really what grappling trains for." Yeah TMA doesn't train much to defend against grappling but people on this fucking board SURE do love to bring out how grappling destroys striking arts so hows about a few less double standards? The question wasn't "Does grappling train to defend against poorly trained aikido fighters? Does grappling train to lessen damage if I am dominating my opponent?" The question was very simple and logical. The majority of martial arts train in some variety of weapons. I was curious if grappling arts did too. And I guess I was a bit foolish to think that people training in a MARTIAL ART would be doing so for some sort of defense benefit. Aparently a lot of pacifists in Lebell's school, probably Aikido. Its a martial art and in training it you are training to learn to fight...thats where the martial comes from. You want to get in shape and be healthier go to a fucking 24 hour fitness and get some cardioboxing in. When has anyone ever trained in a grappling art to learn how to not fight? Lebell if you believe that not everyone trains in MA to learn to fight then why are you on a board that is dedicated to stopping the spread of martial arts that don't teach usefull fighting skills?

Seriously is this just because grappling doesn't train any weapons and people are getting defnesive? Thats fine! I wasn't trying to rag on any art, I was just curious. I know about cross training arts to fill gaps between fighting styles but some arts don't require as much cross training as others. BTW responses like this are why people think grapplers and MMAers are arrogant. Just like they look down on TMAers. "You questioned my arts ability in an area? YOU ARE WRONG AND AN ASSHOLE!!!"

**pnwnorseman** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 6:31pm

I don't believe I used gun as an example but ok I'll respond. None...I thought that was obvious. Ultimately all these questions are pointless because every single martial art is beaten unquestionably by a loaded gun. I simply assumed that every person taking any martial art understood this as a given and was simply assuming that for the purposes of street/bar fight scenarios that there were no guns. Is this really why you are here? Flame the guys asking questions that might throw one aspect of your art into doubt? If its in the wrong forum just say so but don't come in flaming because you have no logical answer of defense of your beloved art. I train in only one art right now and that is Kumdo. I'd challange anyone to a friendly fight and if they got close to me they would most likely win, but they might have never had to spar empty hand against an armed opponent so I might have an edge for a bit. Who knows, its all hypothetical, but ask yourself this. Why are you training a martial art at all when learning how to shoot a gun is cheaper and easier?

**iamnicd** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 6:38pm

I'd say Jiu Jitsu. Well see.. it more or less depends on the Sensei. My Sensei teaches some weapon defences as you get into the higher belts but you can find that some don't teach weapons either.

He also has some grappling techniques used in his Jiu Jitsu. But basically, in my opinion, if someone has a knife or a gun you are going to get injured.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 10/08/2007 6:42pm

I hate to point this out pnwnorseman (who am I kidding, I like point this out)...

Almost entire point of jujutsu was ultimately unarmed defense against armed opponents. It was what to do when the **** really hit the fan. Some may have lost sight of this. Other have chosen a more practical and interesting path to develop the unarmed opponent aspect to a high art. Regardless, your premise is wrong.

Conclusion:

a. You are a moron who does not understand the reality of fighting an armed opponent.
b. You are a moron who does not understand the nature of grappling.
c. You are a moron who asks a question expecting a specific answer and vomits a load of words because people don't agree with you.
d. You are a moron.
e. all of the above.