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  1. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
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    4,282

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 12:07am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am feeling charitable tonight:

    It should go something like this, kids-

    "I decided to investigate this guy, because I found some of his claims dubious, and had heard some disturbing rumors. {summary of rumors goes here, with appropriate links to threads, or newspaper articles, etc} I went to his school and interviewed him to get his side of the story.

    {transcript of interview here}

    I took the information he gave me and checked out each individual point with these sources {list sources}.

    he claims that {claim here} but I was unable to verify this information with {relevant sources} which indicates the possibility of dishonesty.

    *repeat with individual claims. Include pictures of documents, screen captures, affidavits, and any non-anecdotal evidence uncovered*

    I again spoke with {person in question} and gave him the opportunity to clarify any information or provide his own documentation. He {did, or did not} have any such documentation. {Pictures of relevant documentation here}

    In conclusion {sum up salient points and reference any evidence not already brought up}"

    This way no one yells at you. It's an assload of work, but usually worth it in the end. Read the dan Webre article, or the Coda Scott, or the Ashida Kim for reference.
    Last edited by Scrapper; 1/22/2007 10:12am at .
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
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    10,473

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 4:43am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to make something clear: Bullshido is a venue, where you post your own work, without any guarantee of help or legal protection. We are not an active publisher, in the way the person who puts up a campus corkboard is not the MAKER of the documents posted on it.

    If you post something interesting and well founded, members MAY, individually, elect to pursue it. Bullshido's contribution, as a site, is to provide the forum. It's up to the poster to persuade the readers to chime in. In the case of the OP of this thread - he did not present himself well and he did not work to prove his facts. Arlingtonmma didn't come off very well when he,she, or it replied, either, in my opinion. It sounds like they're both running around talking about how many TKD titles they've won, blah blah blah, who cares.

    What you need to do if you want someone looked into is LOOK INTO THEM.

    Post who you are, the full story of how you came to know the person. Disclose, right off the bat, if you're a student or a business partner, or an ex-lover, or whatever. It's better to disclose at the begining. It may bias your work a little, but it's better just to come out with it then have it come out later and look like a total liar with a grudge.

    Post exactly what you feel the person misrepresented (enlighted1 did this), but then
    rather then say "this isn't true" go into detail. If the person you say is bullshido said he coached Fighty McPunch, find out if Figthty McPunch is a real person, what his record is, and who really trained him. Document what you learn and how you learned it.

    Parse claims carefully. If a claim seems to be bullshido, pick over it well.

    Example - Coach of the US Olympick TKD demo Team. Posting the name of the Team USA TKD head coach is NOT the same as debunking this claim.

    First, you have to say, "Is there such a team?"
    Then, "Is that team affiliated with Team USA? When they say Olympic, do they refer to a bearth in the Olympics, or merely to Olympic style TKD? If the body does exist, does this person actually coach it? When they say Demo, are they saying they put on demos at the olympic level, or demo the olympic style to the public, or what? Could I maybe call or write team USA and see if they are actually releated?"

    Are you starting to see what I'm saying? The standard here is higher, for either side, then, "NUH-UH! UH-HUH!"

    This is not a ****-talking board where you come to air out your personal differences with the next school down the street. It can have a side effect of bringing those issues to light, but that's not the purpose.


    Looking at the two sites .. . I think this might be some kind of weird troll/spam attempt - both of the sites look like they were written by the same person, using the same layouts and design, with just different buttons and toolbars.

    Also, apparently someone on that txmma board was saying Frank has a patented technique he calls the "Nguyen Mill"

    That's actually kind of funny.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 1/20/2007 4:55am at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. King Sleepless is offline
    King Sleepless's Avatar

    I am a living legend!

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    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cuba
    Posts
    10,047

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 5:21am

    supporting member
     Style: Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Holy ****. Can someone make cliffs on what this guy's saying? I can't go through most of what he types without wanting to claw my eyes out with a fork. No paragraphs makes me want to die.
  4. OnceLost is offline
    OnceLost's Avatar

    Here's looking at you, squid.

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    2,860

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 9:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Essentially, it appears to be defamation of character (the libelous accusations of 'fraud' and 'thief') unsupported by any type of documentation at this point...I think we're still hoping for something evidentiary...
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
    Posts
    10,473

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 3:27pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirc
    Holy ****. Can someone make cliffs on what this guy's saying? I can't go through most of what he types without wanting to claw my eyes out with a fork. No paragraphs makes me want to die.
    It's two guys fighting about stuff internal to their school. Basically, two instructors are having a messy breakup. Sort of. It looks like the same guy wrote both websites.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  6. colonelpong2 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,090

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 7:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    enlightened1, you REALLY hate this guy.....
  7. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,845

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 9:24pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    Bullshido did not drop any "ball."

    If you wish to have a successful investigation, then you must create a successful investion. This old thread suggests some good examples, such as the Coda Scott threads.

    Making claims--legitimate or not--without objective evidence is not an investigation. This point should be clear from a responsible reading of the thread.


    --J.D.
    The majority of Bullshido inquiries are performed by its posters and are not conducted by the staff. People who request and investigation should be prepared to help lead one. Why? Because those of us who work on such projects are typically over committed to ongoing projects of their own. Of course if you wish to pay me my usual lawyerly rate I'm sure I can jump you to the front of the line.

    A good start would be to produce and post copies of any police complaint that was filed after the claimed equipment stealing incident. Similarly I can tell you how to produce an affidavit by various witnesses that you refer to.
  8. fox is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    716

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 10:11pm


     Style: American Karate,TSD,KFSS

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    The majority of Bullshido inquiries are performed by its posters and are not conducted by the staff. People who request and investigation should be prepared to help lead one. Why? Because those of us who work on such projects are typically over committed to ongoing projects of their own. Of course if you wish to pay me my usual lawyerly rate I'm sure I can jump you to the front of the line.

    A good start would be to produce and post copies of any police complaint that was filed after the claimed equipment stealing incident. Similarly I can tell you how to produce an affidavit by various witnesses that you refer to.
    Well said Samuel..
  9. Doctor X is offline
    Doctor X's Avatar

    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,383

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 11:41pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am an Exquisite Inspiration, yes.

    --J.D.
  10. Cough/Cool is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    338

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 11:42pm


     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    investigations seem to be a ton of work; there are a ton of fakes out there but sometimes we don't have the time to look things up. Enlt1 - you got to back it up; you may very well be onto something;) But with our laws you have to prove it. Don't think of these posts as an attack; you should be thankful that they are watching your back and telling you how to go about doing this.

    regardless, did Frankl say he trained with Andy Anderson?? Wasn't he the one that fought John Hess in the worst/funnist fight I ever withnessed??? Anyone remember that gem?
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