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  1. DelDesert is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 2:47am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Different bottom strategies and skill level in Bjj

    whats up guys, im new around here, this is my first post, though ive been active on sherdog and the UG for awhile.

    this is a question ive been wanting to ask some more experienced people in BJJ for awhile. ive been grappling for somewhere around 8 or 9 months.

    as you guys progress (or progressed, if youre already high level), do you notice your focus in your guard shifting more towards sweeping than submitting? several things bring this question to mind. the first of course, is my own training. against guys my own level or slightly higher, i can play the submission game and do reasonably well. however, against higher level guys, i notice that their posture and submission defense is so developed that i find it difficult to even get off an attempt. now before you say "duh, its because theyre just better than you", i would also point out that even at the highest levels of competition it doesnt seem people get submissions from their back very often.

    some of my feelings are confirmed every now and then when i hear someone talk about how closed guard is dead in high level BJJ. of course, with a shift of strategy towards sweeping and obtaining dominant positions on top rather than trying to submit from guard, different types of guard that are more suitable towards sweeping seem to be more popular at the high level (butterfly, half, x-guard is getting popular too)

    if you guys dont agree, thats cool. im not trying to make all the closed guard guys angry or anything. im just trying to stir up a conversation about this. obviously the submission game from the bottom will always exist, im just interested if anyone else sees it get smaller and smaller as the skill level gets higher.

    so what do you guys think?
  2. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 3:19am

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First thing I realized when trying to go for the bread and butter subs from guard was "****, everybody knows this already."

    I'm waiting to learn some sneaky set-ups for those, because there is no way I am going to grab someone's arm without them immediately thinking "armbar".

    So, I found myself learning and doing a lot more sweeps.

    I have about as much exprience as you, so I'm still a n00b too.
  3. Mjelva is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 6:36am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think going for exotic moves because you're unable to execute the bread and butter moves is a good idea.
    Sure, everyone knows the armbar, but you still see experienced players get caught by it.
    Personally, I'm all about sweeps. Not necessarily because I dislike working from my back, but because I'm very focused on constantly working to improve my position.
    However, at the same time, I've taken to heart some very good advice I picked up here, and lately I've found myself going for subs from my back, and transitioning to sweeps if I don't get the sub.
  4. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 7:01am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some of the more experienced guys can add more on this, but lately I have been doing submission attempts from my back as a distraction for a sweep.
  5. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 10:46am

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a blue belt I was trying to get subs all the time. Then I kinda moved my game towards sweeps because from the top position you have more mobility that allows you more positions for submissions.

    Now at purple I find the bottom game is all about the half guard. Sweeps from the half guard. Subs are still availible from all positions, but getting the sweep and avoiding other peoples sweeps are what its about for me.
  6. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 11:35am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFu
    Some of the more experienced guys can add more on this, but lately I have been doing submission attempts from my back as a distraction for a sweep.
    What he said. I have a series of moves I use that goes something like: sub attempt--->another sub attempt--->sweep attempt--->another sub attempt--->sweep again etc. In other words, a chain of moves that flow into each other if the previous attempt is unsuccesful. The main thing is to keep a dynamic open guard wherein I'm causing my opponent to be on the defensive to prevent him from getting his pass setup. All that said, I enjoy a good sweep from guard more than a sub these days.

    Hope this helps.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  7. DelDesert is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 1:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thank you guys for your responses, im glad you all didnt flip out at my generalization like i thought you might.

    one reason i asked this is because ive been focusing ALOT on my closed guard lately. and like i said, i can catch people my own level, but against someone higher, my guard gets opened and i usually end up working sweeps from either half or butterfly, making me think i should work harder on my sweeping game.
  8. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 3:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let go, Neo.

    Take the red pill and open up the guard.
  9. DelDesert is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2006 4:23pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    aha, thanks, i will.
  10. DelDesert is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2006 2:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

    Now at purple I find the bottom game is all about the half guard. Sweeps from the half guard. Subs are still availible from all positions, but getting the sweep and avoiding other peoples sweeps are what its about for me.
    it is very interesting that you say this because i recently bought ADCC 2005 and i noticed that half guard is used extensively in the majority of the matches. i had no idea that so many people used it as their primary offense off their back. only butterfly guard seemed to get near as much usage as the half in the tournament.
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