223766 Bullies, 3693 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 131 to 140 of 4291
Page 14 of 430 FirstFirst ... 41011121314 151617182464114 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. AgentCooper is offline
    AgentCooper's Avatar

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    397

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 7:38am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    he business in Lubbock failed? It happens. These things are nothing but mud stirred up to cloud things that could be real issues.

    Look Kravchick....it's not mud slinging here these are FACTS. How can you say they aren't facts? Just because you have trained at his new school for a while makes you qualified somehow? If anything that makes you a possible victim of his fraudulent tactics and misleading lies.

    I've lived in Lubbock for the past 20 years and have been involved in Martial Arts in this town for close to 19....I think I might know a bit more about this guy and his antics than you or most anyone else on this forum. I have FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE about him not rumors or false accusations......STRAIGHT UP FACTS.

    Pretty much everyone of his creditentials have been PROVEN to be lies. If you don't beleive it look them up yourself. Or better yet start emailing or calling any of his "mentors & coaches" and find out just how many know who he is. Start with Gene LeBell.
      #131
  2. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,955

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 7:46am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    ASSUMING bullshidoka dont have hard evidence to prove fraud, admit that they have at the very least proven that there is shady marketting.

    What she did was selective editing. The "We've proven" quote was edited to leave out Grandnat's list of evidence. A list that has been proven through email and websites.

    This was done so, if you only read this page which many people do, it looks like GA just threw it out as an aside.
      #132
  3. kravchick is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 10:25am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    ASSUMING bullshidoka dont have hard evidence to prove fraud, admit that they have at the very least proven that there is shady marketting.
    I don't think highly of marketing in general. I've had to learn to grit my teeth and just do it in the business world, and satisfy myself with my resolve to say nothing that is an outright falsehood. The spin, however, can get rather dizzying, and if something can be left to an assumption of the reader, it is. That's just expected, and I expect it when I'm reading ad copy.

    Do I admit that there is likely spin on his marketing website, and terms that are left to the readers' assumptions? Sure. Do I categorize that as "shady"? No more so than every other marketing website out there. Not that it's the ideal, but I'm a realist. You have to play the game by the rules everyone else plays by.
      #133
  4. AgentCooper is offline
    AgentCooper's Avatar

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    397

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 10:31am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think highly of marketing in general.
    I'm not trying to pick on you here Kravchick....but this quote is a bit funny.

    You don't think highly of marketing in general and yet you are involved in Krav-Maga....which is one of the most highly marketed martial arts ever. Their entire success has been atributed to their "interesting" marketing tactics.

    And Larry L'Onis has got to be one of the worst around.
      #134
  5. Grandnat is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texa$
    Posts
    153

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 10:54am


     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Krav Chick, I wanted to say that I am glad you are on this site, and I respect you comming forth to discuss this issue.

    I hope I didn't seem to harsh in my earlier reply. After re-reading it, I can understand how it sounds like an attack. I think I was a bit frustrated myself.

    I think his tactics go beyond marketing, however that is apparently only my opinion.

    so thanks for being here and good luck in your training. If you are getting out of it what you want, then there is no issue.

    My objective here is not to change his students minds or have them quit. It is simply to cast some light on claims that I think are dubious to say the least, that is the purpose of this website.
      #135
  6. kravchick is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 10:55am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AgentCooper
    I'm not trying to pick on you here Kravchick....but this quote is a bit funny.

    You don't think highly of marketing in general and yet you are involved in Krav-Maga....which is one of the most highly marketed martial arts ever. Their entire success has been atributed to their "interesting" marketing tactics.

    And Larry L'Onis has got to be one of the worst around.
    Pick away. :glasses9: I grew up with 3 older brothers, and used to be a Paramedic. Trust me, I can take some ribbing.

    I recognize that marketing has permeated the society, and that even I, with my disdain, fall prey to it. Especially product placement. Which is what piqued my interest and caused me to start researching Krav. (A bit on the show Numbers where the hot FBI agent talked about learning it.) That doesn't mean I can't kibbitz about it. Or feel that it's a scrotum-hair from being an outright lie 98% of the time.

    Still, I love Krav. I love the workout, and I think what I and the family is learning is good self defense stuff. I know that a lot of people here disagree, and I believe it's a matter of opinion.

    As for Sensei Klay... I have not seen your proof that his credentials are lies. And, frankly, I don't know you from Adam.

    All I have seen is what's been posted on this forum, which is basically a lot of serious questions, and a lot of missing pieces, and some stuff that's not adding up. And what's presented here admittedly doesn't look good. BUT, as I said, there's a lot of factors, and rationally speaking, while good questions and concerns have been raised, nothing has been *PROVEN* *here* except that he is marketing his company in a competetive way.

    Once again, I'm not trying to defend Sensei Klay. He can do that for himself if he chooses. I don't know his background and don't know enough about MA credentials to do so anyway. And I'm not a raving brainwashed Klay-head. All I'm saying is that I'm looking at this rationally. I hate mob mentality, and refuse to get caught up in it.
      #136
  7. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,955

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 11:03am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kravchick
    I.......... don't know enough about MA credentials to do so anyway.
    Thanks for being honest.

    Yes, you are defending your teacher. You see you admit to knowing nothing about MA credentials. Yet, you are still able to compare marketing and business to MA credentials.
      #137
  8. kravchick is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 11:05am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandnat
    Krav Chick, I wanted to say that I am glad you are on this site, and I respect you comming forth to discuss this issue.

    I hope I didn't seem to harsh in my earlier reply. After re-reading it, I can understand how it sounds like an attack. I think I was a bit frustrated myself.

    I think his tactics go beyond marketing, however that is apparently only my opinion.

    so thanks for being here and good luck in your training. If you are getting out of it what you want, then there is no issue.

    My objective here is not to change his students minds or have them quit. It is simply to cast some light on claims that I think are dubious to say the least, that is the purpose of this website.
    Hey, no worries! Email/BBS board veteran here. Tone is very hard to read in forums like this. When I get back home, I'll try to find a vid a friend sent me that is a primer for the internet vs. the real world. It's a gas, and covers this exact thing.

    I'm not going to get all pissy with anyone here for attacking Sensei Klay, as if it's a personal attack on me, because it's not. He's a big boy (VERY big ::grin::) and is more than capable of handling himself. I don't need to take on other people on his behalf. I only speak for myself. I *do* listen to, and appreciate, what everyone is saying, and I do realize that everyone here is trying to protect the integrity of the martial arts. I'm a n00b, but I do keep my eyes open.
      #138
  9. AgentCooper is offline
    AgentCooper's Avatar

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    397

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 11:07am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As for Sensei Klay... I have not seen your proof that his credentials are lies. And, frankly, I don't know you from Adam.

    All I have seen is what's been posted on this forum, which is basically a lot of serious questions, and a lot of missing pieces, and some stuff that's not adding up. And what's presented here admittedly doesn't look good. BUT, as I said, there's a lot of factors, and rationally speaking, while good questions and concerns have been raised, nothing has been *PROVEN* *here* except that he is marketing his company in a competetive way.
    First off it's Clay not Klay....:laughing9 Sorry, couldn't help it.

    What proof do you need? Not ONE of his listed credentials pan out. No one can vouch for his training, records, or awards. He has several names he goes by, which is one of the biggest RED FLAGS in any business, and to top it off he won't respond to any of the accusations given on this forum.

    The only "missing pieces" as you would say are coming directly from him. It is HIS responsibility to defend his own lies not ours. As fellow martial artists and consumers of martial arts we have every right to question what he claims to be legit. WE DIDN'T post up all of those credentials did we? HE DID......and in doing so opens the door for questions and more importantly PROOF. Especially when you are using those lies to promote your business.

    There aren't "a lot of factors" here as you would say. All of this evidence speaks for itself.

    Once again, my opinions are not just that. They are facts. Lubbock is a small martial arts town and if you have been involved in martial arts in this town for as long as I have you gain first hand knowlegde about what goes on around here.


    He's a big boy (VERY big ::grin::) and is more than capable of handling himself
    Just because you are big doesn't mean you are indeed capable. I've actually been on the mat with him and several of his students...........I'll just keep that critique to myself...LOL
    Last edited by AgentCooper; 8/08/2006 11:10am at .
      #139
  10. kravchick is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    81

    Posted On:
    8/08/2006 11:22am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Thanks for being honest.

    Yes, you are defending your teacher. You see you admit to knowing nothing about MA credentials. Yet, you are still able to compare marketing and business to MA credentials.
    Hmmm... defending my teacher?

    Perhaps. Perhaps also functioning as a Devils' Advocate. There's a lot of allegations, accusations, and innuendo being thrown around here, and I'm trying to sort through the manure to see what he's potentially actually *lying* about.

    I discount out of hand the picture on MySpace.

    The names issue confuses me... is everyone all up at arms because he has multiple nicknames that he's known by to different groups; because he's changed the operating names of his different businesses; or because he's filed his legal paperwork under different names? Because the first is being nitpicky; the second is finding marketing that works best; and the third is potentially fraudulent.

    I can't tell if the complaints about the awards and honors are that he's lying or that they're potentially from "pay-to-play" organizations. To me, that's not the same. To you and others, it apparently is... but one way or the other, I want it clarified what is an outright LIE and what is a Marketing issue.

    As for who he's trained with, and where he's fought... all I'm saying is that I am finding in my research that there's a number of organizations out there, and I'm not going to call him a liar just because no one HERE can vouch for him. Not that he's pure as the driven snow, but that there's more research to be done before a judgment can be made.

    We do have one person here who seems to be claiming that he has *personally* talked to Gene LeBell and that Gene does not know and has not trained this person... is that the case, Agent Cooper?
      #140

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.