BJJ = obsolete?

**deus ex machina** · Posted On: 7/15/2003 11:54pm

As it is now, BJJ is losing the dominance it once had on the martial arts scene. Not only that, it's Vale Tudo roots are all but forgotten by a huge sport BJJ community. If you're at a sport BJJ oriented school (in others words, you train with the gi) and that's all you're studying, you are not training to become a well rounded fighter. Even if you are crosstraining Muay Thai and BJJ, your knowledge of how everything ties together is incomplete. You don't know how striking works on the ground, you don't know how to tie striking in with stand up grappling. Even if you spar NHB style, if you're not training NHB (at an MMA school), all you have is rudimentary knowledge, maybe a technique or two, on how to fight NHB as opposed to an understanding of how everything ties together.

Personally, I've been training for about one month in Shooto. I have confidence that I could beat the hell out of a guy who's studied one month of BJJ. As Anthony_A said to me, MMA is the future. And BJJ is the past.

Thoughts?

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

**deus ex machina** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:06am

But what does that mean? Do you care about the lowest common denominator or the highest?

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

**deus ex machina** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:06am

Because, personally, I watch out for number 1. Not number 32523342324.

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

**FingerorMoon?** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:10am

You feel you may get attacked by a highly trained MMArtist ?

**deus ex machina** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:11am

Wouldn't you feel infinitely more confidant if you could hang with a trained MMArtist than with a TKD stylist?

That's like saying I could kick the ass of a 6 year old girl. In other words, I'm not saying much.

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

**Boyd** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:15am

I agree with both of you. The MMA school that I recently joined grants me unlimited access to another MMA school for free, and the difference is pretty much night and day. One is held in a private room in Gold's Gym with between 3 and 5 people, and is more of an 'integrated' MMA class; that is to say, it's not "pure" Muay Thai or "pure" BJJ, but rather striking and grappling done with BJJ and MT as the base. Sparring seems to be basically San Shou rules, although I haven't been there long enough to know for sure.

The other class is at a much larger facility. It's about two stories tall and is covered with posters from early UFCs. It's hardly a bad school, and I'll take advantage of the free tutilege, but man, most of what I've learned so far will probably result in a severe ass-beating on the street.

THIS IS BOYD WHEN HE'S RUNNING FROM THE SCHOOL YARD AFTER GETTING BEAT UP: boydrunner, beep beep, that coyote's after you, beep beep, boydrunner if he catches you, your through. --Jamoke, winning the hearts of children worldwide

**Rashomon** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:45am

I'm with Deus on this one. Sport BJJ is a good style, and it is much, much better than nothing at all. Unless you are doing strictly grappling in a tournament setting, I think you really need to train grappling with striking (striking on the ground). Some techniques just won't work if your opponent is free to hit you.

Take one of the basic guard passes, for instance. You know, the one where you make posture, put your knee in the guy's butt, hold his hips down, and step back with your knee and arch your back to make him unlock his feet. That normally works pretty good. Try that with someone who is allowed to hit you in the face and you'll get popped when you make posture. Uh-oh! Time to try something else.

Now, I do think that it might be a good idea to train the basics without any hitting. Walk before you can run, you know? At some point, though, I think it would be good to add the striking. Yeah, I know some of you will say that you can just add it on the fly in a "real" fight. Yeah. Maybe. It's not you hitting someone else that concerns me, though. It's you getting hit by someone else because you tried something that left you vulnerable, as per my example.

**deus ex machina** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 12:59am

Now, I do think that it might be a good idea to train the basics without any hitting. Walk before you can run, you know? At some point, though, I think it would be good to add the striking.

Why not just train striking with grappling in the first place? So instead of having just grappling as a "base", you have striking AND grappling as a "base". Doesn't that make you that much more ahead of the game?

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 1:25am

I hate you Danny.

With that said. I love BJJ. I almost got involved in a brawl at a party last Saturday. Yes, I felt no pain on Vicodin and Flexill.

I watched as this guy got punched in the face and just dind't react. I thought out how I would have reacted. Clinch, take down, and mount. Except, this guy is 19 and just swinging away. I personally don't know how to react to it while on the ground. Most likely I would have fallen into a half guard, or maybe full guard. I would pass it, with leg on shoulder, and stack. If I did that, I would get punched, scratched, you name it. Or maybe not. The sceanarios running through my head made it hurt.

You see, all I know on the ground is Sport BJJ. I am just getting down my base, what happens if I throw a punch? Do I have to shift? I'm getting punched from being in a low base, now what do I do. All those questions and more went through my head.

Go back 3 or so weeks. I was rolling with HAP, he had no GI, I wore mine. I literally had no idea where to grab on him, while I offered him sleeves, colar, belt, etc... HAP got me in an armbar, thankfully the escape I've trained in didn't need a gi to hold onto or grab. But what if it did? All questions.

So, I'm on a quest. Once I get better to see if training no gi, is better than with gi. To see if sub wrestling mixed in with MT is more viable than just BJJ by itself.

Long rant, but that Bastard Deus brought it out with the his quote of me. How much of it will be true? I don't know, but will find out in my journies.

==================
"When we go to the ground, you are in my world. The ground is the ocean, I am the shark, and most people don't even know how to swim." RCJ Machado

Edited by - anthony_a on July 16 2003 01:27:27

**PeedeeShaolin** · Posted On: 7/16/2003 1:45am

Man....why WOULD you have to pass the guard in the FIRST place in a street fight? Passing the guard is irrelevant. The only time someone is gojng to have you in the guard and attempt to punch you is in a MMA fight or if hes trained.

BJJ still owns right now.

Any style that you claim is better is only better for fast, physical men.