Odacon to Wing Tsun: Dramatic music doesn't fool me!

**Backdraft** · Posted On: 7/31/2006 1:01pm

Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak

People in real life aren't stupid enough to pull you into them for no reason? At least not without clubbing you at the same time.

Also in real life an elbow delivered in that manner would not have the power to send your opponent flying backwards. If the girl had delivered it in real life she'd still be in the grasp of her much larger opponent who SHOULD have no trouble getting her to the ground if he wants.

Ok, I get the point about it being a crappy elbow.
However, I'd have to disagree partly on the "people not stupid enough" part.
I think, especially in the case of sexual harassment, an aggressor could do something similar to pulling like that. Even though it's stupid. Maybe an osoto-gari would work better?

**Seraphim** · Posted On: 7/31/2006 1:21pm

Where did that music come from? Pirates of the Carribean? and I can't spell today:(

On a side note, I am in no way suggesting awesome music makes the subject matter awesome aswell.

**Bang!** · Posted On: 7/31/2006 1:42pm

Originally Posted by mrblackmagic

I was referring to the "scientific boxing," but parrying lost popularity as the gloves got bigger.

Yeah, I wouldn't discount parrying, et al. soley on the basis that boxers no longer do it; it's an adaptation to equipment, and may well still have value for situations sans gloves. Not an argument for the chun, per se, just a chink in your logic, stinky.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 7/31/2006 2:12pm

Originally Posted by mrblackmagic

Just out of curiosity, how far back does Wing Chun actually date?

edit>> I mean who was the oldest factual practitioner?

It depends on who you speak to.

"Let's just say you know me and I know Yip Man. That's all the history you need to know for sure 100 percent." -- Moy Yat.

**Dr._Tzun_Tzu** · Posted On: 7/31/2006 7:11pm

Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin

And maybe Dr. TT can explain this, but why does WT turn off center so much? I'm always being told that turning off center means you are losing control and giving yourself up to being slammed through (even though it often lets you get one good technique in). It also ends with me getting punched in the head a lot. But WT guys seem to do this all the time in the vids. I'm not trying to start a _ing _un vs. _ing _un thing, I just don't get it since it seems so contrary to what I keep being told....
Dagon

The concept is you are training to fight when you are overpowered. So you gently pretend the skinny guy pushing you is overpowering you to get muscle memory. You have to practice for the bigger guy, even if your partner is not that guy.....

If you are stronger then them in a fight, you just knock them over. You practice that by hitting wallbags and stuff. No need to practice being turned if you are overpowering them. So All the partner drills are for when you are being overpowered.

So, If you Hit and meet resistance, often the difference in the opposing forces is very minor, so this gets back to the gentle chi sau, as you need to feel the minor difference in pressure. (i.e. if its 1001 lbs vs 998 or if its 11 lbs vs 8, the difference is only 3 lbs.) So chi sau is trying to train to feel the minor differences in force and energy vectors when punches/kicks crash into each other. Feeling that, you can react to it.

Turning off the centerline is only done if they push you over there. You do not turn yourself over there. If you could react fast enough to turn yourself out of the way, you could have just stepped out of the way completly. You punch and attack stepping forward, but if your arms are being collapsed, then you take that in a turn, instead of in the arms. It is done while stepping in in a fight. It actually becomes a footwork step later but most people only see the standing and turning chi sau demo before they quit. I can go into more detail but it will bore most people on here.

Unfortunatly, Chi Sau is stuff you do to train muscle memory. You should not do this stuff in a fight. That is where it gets screwed up. In a fight you use only the muscle memory part. So in Chi Sau you may have to turn yourself to learn it, but if you turn yourself in a fight it becomes something else.

**mrblackmagic** · Posted On: 7/31/2006 7:36pm

Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey

Yeah, I wouldn't discount parrying, et al. soley on the basis that boxers no longer do it; it's an adaptation to equipment, and may well still have value for situations sans gloves. Not an argument for the chun, per se, just a chink in your logic, stinky.

I won't dispute that at all. It's just not favored in the context of sporting boxing. Excuse me, modern....more recent.....boxing from about the 1970's on.

I'm also trying not throw out a theory stating once upon a time bareknuckle boxing=_ing _un either. I can't support that argument just yet. I need to learn more about the history of CMA developed during European Imperialism before I swim in that water.