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  1. vigilus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2006 8:42pm


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't find my notes or anything on line so I'll put it in my own words.
    Also I don't have very much experience coaching handguns, mostly rifles and machineguns. In Canada the officers usually nab them because their lighter and the officers and support trades don't like carrying around big heavy rifles.

    Anyhow using our old saying HABIT.

    Holding. Toy want to be comfortable. IF you straining to hold your weapon steady then your muscles are going to shake and your going to miss. If your in pain your going to be thinking about that. Better to lean forward into the recoil than backwards. When your aiming you should be comfortable. Have the pistol down on a 45o angle and when your ready to shoot bring it up, shoot and then drop it back down. A lot of people prefer to "punch out" that is basically take the pistol from your chest and push it forward towards the target. Others like toraise it and lower it at arms length. Both have pros and cons which I won't mention without further refreshing.

    Airway. Be able to breath I guess. I can't remember the points for this. You want to be able to breath properly. When were laying on the ground we'll bring one leg up higher which raises our chest off the ground letting us get more air.

    Breathing. Want to be able to breath (obviously heh). Some people have different techniques. Taking a deep breath, let it out, take another deep breath, let it out, take a deep breath and then exhale half way (or 3/4ths), hold it and fire. Once you shoot repeat the process. I don't practice what I preach. I just hold my breath and then fire as fast as I can. Thats a bad practice because the longer you hold your breath the less oxygen you get to your muscles and the more you start to shake and fatigue.

    Instinctive positioning. You want the weapon to point naturally towards the target. When we use rifles I get guys to point the pointing (trigger) finger on their foward hand towards where they want to shoot. Since you were a kid you've played guns and pointed at peoiple with your finger out, this will help a lot. When your finger isn't on the pistol trigger have it running along the trigger guard towards the front of the barrel. When you raise your pistol towards the target you shouldnt have to fight with your body to aim correctly (just like holding). When you breath you should actually notice the sights moving OFF of the target so as your breathing the pistol will go up and down slightly. This is where breathing comes in, as you hold your breath your target should be inline with your sights.

    Trigger control. If you jerk your trigger your going to miss because it pulls your gun off alignment. Don't use the tip of your finger use the next part. Slowly squeeze the trigger until it fires. Some people say it should come as a surprise. I don't do it myself because I like knowing exactly when I shoot (because of how I fire) but I know the surprise method DOES work with a lot of shooters) Once you fire don't release the trigger right away. Continue to squeeze it for 2 or 3 seconds. Then release it and listen for the click. Once you shoot a little more you will fin that triggers actually have slack you can take up. You squeeze a little and it doesnt shoot. The more you squeeze the more the trigger depresses until a shot is fired. With experience you will be able to take up this slack which makes firing exactly when you want to a lot easier.

    Some people are really nervous about shooting. Confidence is a big part. I always tell guys and girls to walk onto a range and say to themselves I own this range. This is my day, this is my shoot. I agre it sounds gay but a lot of people i've coached have said they've tried this after i've suggested it and it made a very noticable difference. Best thing is no one knows your doing it.

    When your shooting and you KNOW you fucked up and missed a shot, pulled a trigger or whatever then say outloud "I pulled that shot, it's going to be high and to the right"
    Try keeping a record of your shooting. What weapon you use, what type of ammo, how well you did, how you missed. Don's first point is very important. The more you shoot for a while the more you will notice you're getting worse. I don't remember why it is but it always happens. You basically try too hard and over think it. Just let it go, keep shooting, have fun and it will come back.
    Last edited by vigilus; 7/31/2006 8:46pm at .
  2. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2006 10:46pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    I seriously doubt the recoil of the 9mm is making Robstafarian lose control. There are very few people in this world who can't shoot .40, .45, 10mm and .44 Magnum in reasonable-sized guns IF they are given the chance to get used to the flash and the noise.
    I don't think it's the recoil, I think it's my startle reflex exaggerating the recoil. I can usually control it enough to maintain a reasonable amount of control (i.e. not throwing or dropping a glass I'm holding), but not fine control (i.e. more often than not the contents of the glass are ejected). There was no discernable pattern to where my shots went when they missed, however, when I shot more or less on target there was a standard of deviation. This, in addition to what I could feel, leads me to believe that my reflex was the majority of the problem. I am confident that I can consistently shoot with lethality at 20 feet, though.

    Since I have nothing further to share that would be productive, this will be my last post in this thread.
  3. vigilus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2006 12:18am


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was no discernable pattern to where my shots went when they missed, however, when I shot more or less on target there was a standard of deviation. This, in addition to what I could feel, leads me to believe that my reflex was the majority of the problem
    You'd be surprised at what you can tell when you look at missed shots or where your bullets landed.
    Were they going straight up and down suggesting you need to work on your breathing.
    Were they left to right which suggests trigger control (or lack there of) as the culprit.
    Did you have two different groups of shots on paper? Might have adjusted your shooting stance halfway thgrough your shoot. Just food for thought since you're not repling any posts.

    Don't worry about hitting the bullseye everytime. Work on bringing your bullets closer together and making a tighter patern, after that you can bring yourself along with your grouping onto target.
  4. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2006 12:56am


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll reply, I just don't want to clog up the thread when I clearly don't know enough to help more than I (hopefully) already have.

    I can't answer your questions regarding shot placement because there's no clear answer. There really wasn't a discernable pattern to my misses. I compared every shot to where I thought I was aiming, and each difference to previous differences. When I wasn't so violently startled, I shot damn near the same every time. I kid you not, it was just one ever-expanding hole. Well, I should say "multiple ever-expanding holes". I periodically changed my target, always in the torso area, so that I could still tell which shot was which.
    Last edited by Robstafarian; 8/01/2006 12:59am at .
  5. fubar is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2006 5:29am


     Style: ex-TKD 2 Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can usually control it enough to maintain a reasonable amount of control (i.e. not throwing or dropping a glass I'm holding), but not fine control (i.e. more often than not the contents of the glass are ejected).
    Oh , here you go : Put down the beer , and shoot with two hands.
  6. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2006 8:55am


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian
    I can usually control it enough to maintain a reasonable amount of control (i.e. not throwing or dropping a glass I'm holding), but not fine control (i.e. more often than not the contents of the glass are ejected).
    Sorry, I should have provided a transition for the context. That bit was meant to illustrate the amount of static hand control I have when startled.
  7. Ktulu is offline
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    Not impressed with your performance!

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2006 10:08am

    supporting member
     Style: Krav Maga/MMA/Firearms

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian
    I don't think it's the recoil, I think it's my startle reflex exaggerating the recoil. I can usually control it enough to maintain a reasonable amount of control...
    I've found that most people I've shot with don't have a problem with recoil but with the extremely loud BANG that tends to happen when you shoot a gun. The simple cure for this is to get good hearing protection and double up on it. Foam plugs AND earmuffs, big earmuffs not the little compact ones. When you can barely hear the blast the gun moving in your hands means very little. If the blast makes you jerk the gun around or close your eyes, shooting is going to be difficult and getting really good at it is going to be impossible.
    If God carried a gun, it would be a 1911.

    Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit - Cicero

    Fortitudine Vincimus - Ernest Shackelton :englishmo

    A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill
  8. sdave is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2006 10:35am

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    I think the only time I jumped was when the guy next to me shot his .44 magnum. I was like HOLY ****!!!
    Some days, I go to the range with the specific intent of soliciting THAT reacion from SOMEBODY.



    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    That is exactly what I meant sdave. You are dead on, as usual.
  9. Carpe Noctem is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2006 2:03pm


     Style: BJJ, MACP (hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are those Ruger Super Blackhawks? Nice.

    All I shoot on my off-duty hours is .45 out of a 1911. It was good practice for when I got the chance to qualify on the M9 (Beretta 9mm), and ended up out-shooting everyone in the company. Won a case of beer off that one...
  10. sdave is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2006 2:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Fitts
    Are those Ruger Super Blackhawks? Nice.
    Yeah, the one on top is Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum, bottom is a New Model Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt.

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Fitts
    All I shoot on my off-duty hours is .45 out of a 1911.
    That's what I usually carry... With 230 gr. Hydra-Shoks.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    That is exactly what I meant sdave. You are dead on, as usual.
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