Step right up! Take your shots at Kuk Sool Won!

**Wolf** · Posted On: 8/03/2006 7:57am

I could be COMPLETELY wrong on this, but I thought I remembered reading that a large portion of the japanese population is actually of Korean decent today (at least somewhere in their history). The actual aboriginal Japanese are a much smaller group. Please correct me if I misunderstood what I heard though.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 8/03/2006 8:35am

Originally Posted by KSWolf

Basically it turned out as I expected. I still feel that as an art, Kuk Sool is solid. As I stated earlier though, I do feel that most schools need to add A LOT more contact/alive drills. The videos you saw are proof of that. As evidence, I know how to strike, and I know how to defend against strikes. However, if you watch me in any of the videos where it's striking (especially against AnnaT) I show that in a contact environment (not to mention being gassed) I forgot what I "knew."

So, I did about as well as I expected given my lack of contact training, but I feel that Kuk Sool is still a solid art if this is added to the mix. Like I've said before, and is the same with many other "TMAs" the problems lie in the schools more than the art itself.

I don't want to sound like a dick because I really liked meeting you and I have a lot of respect for you. Showing up to a full contact event like that basically by yourself is pretty far to go for greater martial understanding. BUT I think you are really missing something.

How much alive drilling and sparring can be added to KSW without taking things away. If we assume the average practitioner has a limited amount of extra time and they are currently filling that time with KSW training. Then something has to go in order for the, in my opinion extensive, alive drilling and sparring that needs to be added. What are you willing to give up? Forms? Fans? Cultural study?

**babo78** · Posted On: 8/03/2006 8:40am

Originally Posted by KSWolf

I could be COMPLETELY wrong on this, but I thought I remembered reading that a large portion of the japanese population is actually of Korean decent today (at least somewhere in their history). The actual aboriginal Japanese are a much smaller group. Please correct me if I misunderstood what I heard though.

Yup, you are wrong on that.

Edit: Re-reading. I guess I should explain why? There are basically three japanese ethnicity.

1. Okinawa (ryu something ethnicity), people at south japan.

2. Hokkaido (ainu ethnicity), people up at north japan.

3. Mainland (yamato ethnicity), people at mainland japan.

Common agreement is current ethnicities living in korean pennisula, japanese archipelgo, mainland china, taiwan, and mongolia area is mongolids.

Edit: factor where mogolids came from africa or started in asia is different topic.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 8/03/2006 8:53am

Originally Posted by KSWolf

I could be COMPLETELY wrong on this, but I thought I remembered reading that a large portion of the japanese population is actually of Korean decent today (at least somewhere in their history). The actual aboriginal Japanese are a much smaller group. Please correct me if I misunderstood what I heard though.

Ultimately, we're all Africans, but I think you may be thinking of the the Ainu.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 8/03/2006 9:56am

So KSWolf ...

These uber deadly 5th dan techniques . What is your take on it ?

**Wolf** · Posted On: 8/04/2006 9:28am

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

I don't want to sound like a dick because I really liked meeting you and I have a lot of respect for you. Showing up to a full contact event like that basically by yourself is pretty far to go for greater martial understanding. BUT I think you are really missing something.

How much alive drilling and sparring can be added to KSW without taking things away. If we assume the average practitioner has a limited amount of extra time and they are currently filling that time with KSW training. Then something has to go in order for the, in my opinion extensive, alive drilling and sparring that needs to be added. What are you willing to give up? Forms? Fans? Cultural study?

Oh, I understand what you're saying completely. At this point I don't see anything needing to be given up, I just don't feel they (forms and weapons) need as much focus. Forms don't actually take up that much of my training time. I go through them as they are good exercise (i know there are more efficient ways to exercise but there's something to be said for exercise you enjoy as well). The weapons training is just interesting to learn. Basically, I'm just going to step back my training on those a bit. Either way, I'm going to try and mix them together. At the next throwdown we'll see how successful I've been.

Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey

So KSWolf ...

These uber deadly 5th dan techniques . What is your take on it ?

To be honest, I'm at a loss with this new guy. Yes the 5th Dahn and Above technique is not shown to lower students. This has always seemed to be because there is SOOOO much in the curriculum below that, that there's no point in showing the rest. Students need to learn what's in front of them before they worry about stuff that far ahead. I've never been told even once that that curriculum is kept secret because of its uber-deadly techniques.

**oldman34** · Posted On: 8/05/2006 5:46pm

I had never heard o KSW until I read about it in TaekwonDO Times Magazine. It seemed ok to me but what do I know...I practice TKD. Nothing made up about TKD, no sir..oh and no McDojo's in the art either.

**Pepparoo** · Posted On: 8/06/2006 1:30am

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

My impression of Kuk Sool Won: Blatent McDojo franchise designed to entice the maximum amount of cash from punters. Probably a rather large portion of bullshido thrown into the mix too (don't want those punters to get hurt, they'll stop paying!).

Completely fabricated history.

Expensive 'ceremonial' uniforms and equipment.

The "we do everything, don't you dare spend your money to cross train anywhere!" attitude. That's bad enough as it is, but I've heard that after a certain rank members are forbidden from learning other arts (don't know if this is true, sounds far fetched even for this).

99% forms.
.

I did Kuk Sool before crossing over to MMA. If your into TMA, forms etc then fair enoguh. Its not 99% forms though, they do these wrist grab techniques and acrobatics. Decided to turn to MMA because its more realistic and its more 'combat' orientated, and more fun.

Repeating forms and techniques over n over got really tedious after a while, n training pads consisted of us getting in a line, tapping it once then running to the back of the line, lol. Pretty lame... and it is very money driven, they expect you to take out a standing order of £35 (about %70) and the black belts and suit cost $600. Its ridiculous. The MMA place I train at is practically free, just throw in a £20 here n there, but its tough training, have access to a cage to do drills/sparring in that or a ring, hit some pads, lots of rolling etc. No ego's either, everyone teaches you stuff and its all open minded, unlike Kuk Sool where ive come across loads of arrogant twats...Overall IMO MMA > Kuk Sool, but hey, not saying people who do Kuk Sool are wrong, I'd rather be doing something better.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 8/06/2006 2:06am

Originally Posted by KSWolf

To be honest, I'm at a loss with this new guy. Yes the 5th Dahn and Above technique is not shown to lower students. This has always seemed to be because there is SOOOO much in the curriculum below that, that there's no point in showing the rest. Students need to learn what's in front of them before they worry about stuff that far ahead. I've never been told even once that that curriculum is kept secret because of its uber-deadly techniques.

I had a feeling it was going to be something along those lines ... Alot of TMA's have their frenge (spelling?) groups and wacky beliefs . It just seems to be alot more common in some arts . Especialy those with a tendancy towards idol worship of GM blah blah and little focus on competition .

I felt as if syllabus bloat was Hapkido's biggest problem ... besides the lack of willing resisting training partners . I can't imagine trying to learn an art with more techniques in a corporate styled Dojang .

I officialy quit HKD when our school got the new "red notebook" . Everything that was added or as it was explained to me " fleshed out and more detailed now " . Was completely useless ... as far as my goals went .

I can tolerate tripping over kids , helping out with holiday parties , even the training partners who are just there cause this town sucks and there is little else to do .

But paying to learn **** I don't need or will not use is just fucking nuts.

Kinda of like having a shotgun with non lethal rounds for home defense , but renting a .22 cal target pistol and buying ammo to practice at the range with ... three times a week .

**Wynergy** · Posted On: 8/06/2006 4:25pm

Fresh off the presses, I met a former student of this art last night. Long hair, beard, soft wispy voice, and softer than a heated stick of butter. Talked about what a deadly weapon fans were, and all that jazz.

Now, prior to coming to this site, I'd never even heard of Kuk Sool Won. I can't say I know much at all about it, but three looks in the "motivational posters" section...
was all I needed. This guy just reinforced everything those posters were saying.

Decent enough guy, just entirely deluded about fighting. Him and my girlfriend felt that, because you can move a fan quickly (sideways), if it had a sharpened edge it would be a deadly weapon. Now, just for shits and giggles, how many things are there wrong with this thought? Right off the top of my head, the fact that it's a glaringly obvious weapon, and one only really "usable" with years of training, seems to take it right off the list.