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  1. marcusdbrutus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 12:08am


     Style: MT, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The OP is pretty irrelevant at this point in the thread.

    Also, regarding high kicks, I learned a neat trick in my gym that works well for real-real, not just play-play; as a general rule, I only kick high when I have the guy backing up.


    ....or if he's running at me from far away with his hands wide, I guess.
  2. BSK712 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 10:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kwon Do/Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMHO:

    Yes, high kicks can be useful in a combat situation, but it all depends.
    However, this question is just as vague as asking if a high punch will work in a real fight... if you're fighting a guy who is looking at you and has his guard up, are you just going to throw one high punch/kick and then conclude whether it works or not? Every technique has its specific applications, and so the question must be "when" is it good to use "x" technique. For example, you won't throw an elbow from kicking distance and you won't try to high kick when you're on the ground...

    Protip: If you're not good at kicking, don't do it...
    If you're not flexible, haven't trained in a kicking art, never done tae kwon do, muay thai, savate, or other kicking art, I dunno if you should ever try a high kick. Chances are that you'll just fall on your butt when you're high kicking for practice anyways. If you are flexible and have experience kicking heads in taekwondo or something, you still need to know WHEN to do it and when not to...

    If you are good at high kicking... consider that there is more than one way to kick. Due to Muay Thai's dominating influence in MMA, when the general public thinks of high kicks, they usually assume it means a high roundhouse... I have done tae kwon do for many years (of course that doesn't mean much on this site) and have kicked a lot of people, figuring out what does and doesn't work. If I was facing someone one on one and he was facing me with his guard up (meaning he is ready to fight), I would not throw a rounhouse to his head because his arms are right there, ready to block/catch. Throwing roundhouses on the onset of a fight is like throwing hooks on the onset of a fight... you'll probably notice that boxers and good mma fighters will usually use jabs/straights until they get to a good opportunity to use other punches. So perhaps i'll give my take (my take, not yours... everyone is entitled to an opinion) on what kicks would work in what situations:

    Front Kick: In a combat situation, front kick would work to groin, ribs, solar plexus, and chin, but again, only if you're good at doing it! High kick would be to the chin/face. If it connects, well, it would hurt, do some dental work maybe, and maybe make him bite his tongue. Or you might just hit the face if his face is angled down. You might miss and he might grab it though so be careful.

    Roundhouse: Great to aim at legs, body, but highest i would go in a standing fight would be gut unless you're going for full force muay thai roundhouse. If you're gonna throw a haymaker kick to the head, you can do it, but only if you know it will land. I'm talking about a kick with enough force that will force him to move even if he blocks it. If you can't generate that type of force or your shins aren't conditioned enough, don't do it.

    Side kick: Umm... aim for his knee

    Hook Kick (TKD version): I love hook kicks. Why? Cuz every time I do a hook kick, my opponent lowers his hands to block his low/mid area and I kick him in the face. Obviously, if you don't do tae kwon do or savate, you don't train in this kick and can't do it. Right after landing this kick, it will set you up for a nice kick or punch combination. Know when to use it, that is, if you can even do it.

    Axe Kick: Okay, if you can't kick above your own head, then you can't do a standing axe kick. I do not consider axe kicks that come up to your chest an axe kick. Axe kick IMHO is not good to use when someone has their guard up and is just standing there. It works well in sport TKD, but that's only cuz people are usually kicking so it works to take them off balance, but we're talking about a fight here. Axe kick is good if you missed (either on accident or on purpose) a front kick or roundhouse and they decide to take advantage of your miss by closing the gap and moving in to strike you, in which your foot will land on their head/face/shoulder. i.e. you throw a front kick at his chin, but he moves back, and then you raise your foot above your head and land it on his face. If you cannot do an axe kick after a front kick without lowering your leg, u can't do this so don't try.

    Jump/flying kicks: Only if you have distance to generate momentum, use it. I'm talking about two or three steps distance. Dont' run at them from 20 feet away... he'll throw a chair at you. Of course, this is only if you can do a flying kick. Idea behind this is that if he does block it, well, essentially it's throwing a 150lbs-200lbs object at someone at 10mph, kinda like going to a gym, picking up a 150lbs barbell and hurling it at someone. He'll either fall or you'll break his guard while conveniently being next to him to beat him up. If you're the type who cannot change direction of your kick if he sidesteps, dont' do it.

    Okay, so obviously, if you can't do high kicks to begin with, do what you're good at and don't kick high. You can still kick to the middle since the major objections to high kids are not as bad (i.e. grabbing your foot, you losing balance). With this said, let me tell you one other time when high kicks are a good idea:
    When they're not facing you with their guard up. I would kick people who don't have their guard up OR if you have a long-range joint lock, kicks are great (usually wristlocks).

    Every technique has its purpose. Figure out when it can help u and when it can't.
  3. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 12:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BSK712 View Post
    you won't try to high kick when you're on the ground...



    And that's why I didn't read any more of your post.
  4. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 12:50pm


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BSK712 View Post
    For example, you won't throw an elbow from kicking distance
    To add to Hesperus...

    Dailymotion - Anderson Silva KO's Tony Fryklund - a Extreme Sports video@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xhtbv@@AMEPARAM@@xhtbv
  5. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 12:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BSK - side kick to the face is very effective, if you can do it.

    Hesp - Pedalala kick is not a 'high kick'. If kicking the head were all that were required to make it 'high' then soccer kick would be a 'high' kick too.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  6. BSK712 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 1:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kwon Do/Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    G-Off - That's not kicking distance... I guess you could say that's elbow distance

    Hesperus - My bad, when I said kick from the ground, I guess I forgot to mention that it's to a standing opponent. These guys are just doing things to decrease the distance from a grounded person's foot to their head. First guy is grabbing the downed guys foot with both hands for who knows what reason and second guy is... trying to hit the grounded guys head with his hands from down at the guys' feet? Just good examples of my point that there's good times to do certain things.
    You don't have to read anybody's post, but I would read as much as I can so I can learn something instead of dismissing everything.

    War Wheel - I mean, if you hit his face with a side kick, I'm sure it would be effective, but in general, I think it would be better to just do a front kick. It's faster and has longer reach if you push your hip forward. A side kick is generally used more to transfer momentum rather than breaking power so the general targets would be mid or low, but yeah, if you can hit someone with it, I don't see why not.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 2:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BSK712 View Post
    G-Off - That's not kicking distance... I guess you could say that's elbow distance

    Hesperus - My bad, when I said kick from the ground, I guess I forgot to mention that it's to a standing opponent. These guys are just doing things to decrease the distance from a grounded person's foot to their head. First guy is grabbing the downed guys foot with both hands for who knows what reason and second guy is... trying to hit the grounded guys head with his hands from down at the guys' feet? Just good examples of my point that there's good times to do certain things.
    You don't have to read anybody's post, but I would read as much as I can so I can learn something instead of dismissing everything.

    War Wheel - I mean, if you hit his face with a side kick, I'm sure it would be effective, but in general, I think it would be better to just do a front kick. It's faster and has longer reach if you push your hip forward. A side kick is generally used more to transfer momentum rather than breaking power so the general targets would be mid or low, but yeah, if you can hit someone with it, I don't see why not.
    I just noticed that there is another thread about the sidekick, so I'll keep this brief.

    It depends which sidekick you are talking about. Just as with the round kick, there a 1,000,000 vesions of it, and only 2 or 3 that have an actual application in the ring. When I first started San Shou I had to completely relearn the (JKD) side kick I came in with. The kick I learned is not like any traditional side kick, it is the product of progressive modifications with the intention of beating other kickboxers. If I can find a good video, I'll post it.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2009 11:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Hesp - Pedalala kick is not a 'high kick'. If kicking the head were all that were required to make it 'high' then soccer kick would be a 'high' kick too.
    If hitting a standing opponent in the head with your foot isn't a high kick, nothing's a high kick.

    Quote Originally Posted by BSK712
    yadda yadda fifty additional qualifiers blah blah
    I went back and read your post. Didn't learn anything. Justified.
  9. Lonestar is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2009 8:08am


     Style: TKD, Arnis, Catch

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I kick people in the head all the time with all kinds of kicks in all my MA classes. (
    The non-cross training Jujutsu guys eat high kicks like they want them.)
    It is very effective. You simply have to be fast and well drilled in it. The only downside I know of is that it can make your opponent very aggressive.
  10. SwitchBox is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 2:34am


     Style: Submission wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Generic argument #2, followed by generic output of irrelevant point #5.

    But, increasingly generic personal experience #3.
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