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  1. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2007 2:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Move to YMAS please. This way we can slowly clean up old MABS. Eventually it will be what it is intended for.
  2. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2007 6:06pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog
    Here you go jackass, this is Grand Master Kwon's new web-site, click on Demos, watch the video, and you will get the proof you need. Why you give a sh_t as to what people do and don't study is beyond me. Apparently, you have some issues with the styles you've studied and want to try to bring everyone down with you. Don't bother responding to this as I will never come back to this site, it in its self is bullshido! As martial artist, why can't we all just be happy for all the people studying martial arts and wish them well, especially when we have yet to study their style.

    http://www.grandmasterhykwon.com

    or

    www.kwonschampionschool.com
    So I found this little gem waiting for me in my message box this morning. To be fair I went through the website and checked everything out. Let me first say that had this info been presented at the beginning over a year ago we wouldn't have questioned and ridiculed Kwon's claims as much as we did. That being said here's my analysis of the demo vid I watched as directed to by DD.

    The vid is chock full of your typical Korean MA demo stuff. I saw nothing on there that I have not see done dozens of times in Korea and in some cases done better. Where as these acrobatic displays of kicking prowess are impressive and do require great skill they do not equal fighting ability, nor do choreographed fight demos. Kwon weilds weapons with at high skill level, but again these are demos only not indicative of actual fighting skill.(Of course no one is out fighting sword duels with live blades anymore, so the demos can kind of stand on there own) There were no scenes of sparring to be found in the demo vid.

    Proof of his win as King of the World Champion in 1999 has finally been offered. He is at best King of the Taegu MA tournament Champion, seeing as there were no real competitors there to be beaten, just who was invited (this is an assumption). He is a champion in regards to this tournament only and has not fought any real internationally ranked competitors in a full contact No rules environment. But the claim that he is the King of The World Champion is in fact true because that was the title being offered at this particular event.

    But I still question the intensity level of the fight itself. The video footage of the fight appears to be edited and is shown in slow motion. The slow motion makes it difficult to determine if it is an actual fight or if it is a well choreographed fight sequence. I would like to see footage of the fight in actual real time not slow mo.

    Regarding his belt ranks. It is entirely possible for him to hold the ranks that he does, be it through connections he has, training he has received, or mutual grade exchanges he has done with other masters. The question was raised regarding his Kung Fu rank, seeing as how Kung Fu traditionally did not use belt ranks. In Korea they do, so his Kung Fu ranking by a Korean org is totally plausible.

    In closing I will retract the following statements that I made earlier.

    1. That website is total horseshit. King of the World tournament Champion my ass.
    Evidence (although I still have questions) has been provided to counter my initial opinion, I apologize.

    2. I never heard of any such tournament being held.
    This tournament was held in Taegu which is why I had not heard of it. I was in Seoul. I apologize for questioning it's existence. Although had this tournament been held in Seoul as an open event, IMO, he would not have won. Too many bad dudes training in Seoul.

    I do still stand by this statement
    Did he face any serious competition? Probably not. From what I saw of some of the early NHB fights only about 10-15% of the guys competing had some skills, the other 85% had no business even claiming to MAist of any kind, so if he really did participate in a tournament like this he probably did not face any real challenges.

    Like I said I would like to see footage of his champion fight in real time so I can get a better idea of what was going on and better determine if it was real or choreographed. I do admit that Kwon does seem to have many impressive skills and may very well be a skilled fighter. Is there any footage of sparring in his school? I would like to see it.
  3. Devildog is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/19/2007 12:03pm


     Style: Hwardo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ronin, first of all, I would like to apologize for calling you a Jack Ass, that was wrong of me. Secondly, thank you for your very detailed analysis of Grandmaster Kwon's video and your comments pertaining thereto. Literally, this website just went on-line maybe 2 months ago, at the latest, that's why we have not been able to get anything to you. As for the demonstrations, those were done by Grandmaster Kwon's oldest son who won the Masters Division of the same tournament in which Grandmaster Kwon won the King of the World Trournament. I agree with you in that I too would like to have seen more footage of the tournament and videos of the students actually sparring, however, the way we spar, we all spar at the same time and in very small quarters, that way, we will be comfortable sparing in tight locations as well as wide open locations and therefore, it would be very difficult to get a good idea as to how well we do or don't spar. That having been said, like any other school out there, you have those who are good and those who are not so good. Hopefully, we can finally let this topic rest in peace.
  4. dbc is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2007 10:41pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hwar Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Attention Hwar Do students

    I am a Hwar Do student. My name is Brad Clements and I am a 4th degree black belt instructor at the headquarters location in Centreville, VA. I was at the King of the World tournament in Korea.

    This thread seems designed more to deride Grandmaster Kwon and Hwar Do than to openly and honestly exchange ideas and learn from one another. It is apparently populated by many of the world’s experts in all things martial arts whose responsibility it is to critique and police masters and grandmasters with far more training and experience than they have. Genuine disagreements and honest questions are one matter, uninformed ridicule another.

    I was at the King of the World tournament in Korea. If the tournament were held in Seoul, Grandmaster Kwon wouldn’t have won? Really? Whether the Olympics are held in London or Sydney or Katmandu the same competitors go. The city itself doesn’t matter. As soon as we were at the airport it was obvious that grandmasters were coming from all over the world. With that kind of competition, what difference does Seoul vs. Taegu make?

    Because I gave a demonstration at the tournament, I had the opportunity to speak with several of the grandmasters competing. They told me about how impressed and pleased they were with the tournament. How are people with less training and no experience of the tournament and its competitors supposed to intelligently contradict them?

    These grandmasters also explained to me how awed they were by Grandmaster Kwon’s demonstrations and how they had never seen anyone else who could do these. It’s important to place them in context. When you think about the power required to use a metal punching bag, or the ability to maintain a level of balance on one leg equal to that of standing on both (such as when Grandmaster performs various feats with one leg behind his head), it’s easy to see that the traits developed carry over directly into fighting ability. But the critics of these, and the many demonstrations not shown in small internet previews, are people who have never tried them and likely are unable to do so. Obviously, then, they’re in a good place to judge.

    Certain people seem to have developed the opinion that somehow having less training and experience enables them to accurately critique things they don’t understand. It may just be their opinions (and yes, everyone is entitled to one) but that doesn’t mean it’s an informed opinion.

    For instance, one such authority was in Korea from 1999 until 2003 (1999 being the year I was there for the tournament). He seems to know what percentage of martial artists are good and generally to have all the answers. Yet, interestingly, he seemed unaware that Korea has a degree-based ranking system for kung fu. Generally speaking, when Koreans learn that someone is a martial artist they will ask if (s)he studies Tae Kwon Do. After that it’s: “Kung Fu? Hap Ki Do?” That is the popularity of this art in Korea nowadays. If that was readily apparent to me in the little less than two weeks I was there for the tournament, how wouldn’t he know this after four years?

    I had asked Grandmaster Kwon for permission to post here before and he denied it. He told me not to pay any attention to this type of forum. He told me of how in Korea people used to call him (this was in the pre-internet days) and make similar claims and try to start fights. But when he agreed to meet them, interestingly enough, they never showed. It appears there were big mouths from people who weren’t serious. With this type of person, offering a defense (especially an angered or agitated one) would only make these people happier and further inflate them. It really wasn’t worth it. But after he learned that our students were offering some replies, Grandmaster allowed me to post this so that we, as Hwar Do students, will all understand. Grandmaster said he appreciated that our students want to help and mean well, but these debates are not in the true spirit of martial arts. Grandmaster asked that we all, please, stop posting on these sites. Thank you.

    If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, you can reach me any weekday after 4 pm EST at the headquarters school.
  5. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2007 11:13pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dbc
    I am a Hwar Do student. My name is Brad Clements and I am a 4th degree black belt instructor at the headquarters location in Centreville, VA. I was at the King of the World tournament in Korea.

    This thread seems designed more to deride Grandmaster Kwon and Hwar Do than to openly and honestly exchange ideas and learn from one another. It is apparently populated by many of the world’s experts in all things martial arts whose responsibility it is to critique and police masters and grandmasters with far more training and experience than they have. Genuine disagreements and honest questions are one matter, uninformed ridicule another.

    I was at the King of the World tournament in Korea. If the tournament were held in Seoul, Grandmaster Kwon wouldn’t have won? Really? Whether the Olympics are held in London or Sydney or Katmandu the same competitors go. The city itself doesn’t matter. As soon as we were at the airport it was obvious that grandmasters were coming from all over the world. With that kind of competition, what difference does Seoul vs. Taegu make?

    Because I gave a demonstration at the tournament, I had the opportunity to speak with several of the grandmasters competing. They told me about how impressed and pleased they were with the tournament. How are people with less training and no experience of the tournament and its competitors supposed to intelligently contradict them?

    These grandmasters also explained to me how awed they were by Grandmaster Kwon’s demonstrations and how they had never seen anyone else who could do these. It’s important to place them in context. When you think about the power required to use a metal punching bag, or the ability to maintain a level of balance on one leg equal to that of standing on both (such as when Grandmaster performs various feats with one leg behind his head), it’s easy to see that the traits developed carry over directly into fighting ability. But the critics of these, and the many demonstrations not shown in small internet previews, are people who have never tried them and likely are unable to do so. Obviously, then, they’re in a good place to judge.

    Certain people seem to have developed the opinion that somehow having less training and experience enables them to accurately critique things they don’t understand. It may just be their opinions (and yes, everyone is entitled to one) but that doesn’t mean it’s an informed opinion.

    For instance, one such authority was in Korea from 1999 until 2003 (1999 being the year I was there for the tournament). He seems to know what percentage of martial artists are good and generally to have all the answers. Yet, interestingly, he seemed unaware that Korea has a degree-based ranking system for kung fu. Generally speaking, when Koreans learn that someone is a martial artist they will ask if (s)he studies Tae Kwon Do. After that it’s: “Kung Fu? Hap Ki Do?” That is the popularity of this art in Korea nowadays. If that was readily apparent to me in the little less than two weeks I was there for the tournament, how wouldn’t he know this after four years?

    I had asked Grandmaster Kwon for permission to post here before and he denied it. He told me not to pay any attention to this type of forum. He told me of how in Korea people used to call him (this was in the pre-internet days) and make similar claims and try to start fights. But when he agreed to meet them, interestingly enough, they never showed. It appears there were big mouths from people who weren’t serious. With this type of person, offering a defense (especially an angered or agitated one) would only make these people happier and further inflate them. It really wasn’t worth it. But after he learned that our students were offering some replies, Grandmaster allowed me to post this so that we, as Hwar Do students, will all understand. Grandmaster said he appreciated that our students want to help and mean well, but these debates are not in the true spirit of martial arts. Grandmaster asked that we all, please, stop posting on these sites. Thank you.

    If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, you can reach me any weekday after 4 pm EST at the headquarters school.
    I'm the one who was in Korea from 99-03. Thanks for coming by and posting. I'm curious did you even bother to read my most recent post #42 where I retracted several earlier statements and apologized for others? Did you read where I specifically said that if Master Kwon had achieved Kung Fu rank in Korea he would have been given a dan grade?

    Or are you just content stirring things back up when the topic of Master Kwon's legitimacy and claims has been laid to rest. The final conclusion being that as far as any one has been able to determine his claims are true.

    I still feel that some of my statements and questions are legitimate. How many competitors fought at this tournament? 8? 12? How many of them were foreigners? As I recall none of them were, although I could be mistaken. His title is King of the World but he only fought a hand full of other Korean Masters. There are numerous professional fighters througout Korea yet none of them were participating in this event. Can you understand my skepticism? I would still like to see footage of the fight at regular speed. The last time I checked it was being shown in slow-mo which prevents proper viewing of the attack in motion.

    Many of his physical feats are very impressive but I've seen all of them demoed by other masters before. That doesn't make them any less impressive, just not unique.

    So where as I still had a couple of points that I would like to have seen clarified, I admitted that for the most part I was wrong which is more than anyone else on this thread did. But thanks for coming by and displaying your lack of reading skills.

    Cheers!!
  6. Wolf is offline
    Wolf's Avatar

    T3h R34l Gangnam Style!

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 4:15pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hmmm... what i'm wondering is why this post by HKDsabum: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...8&postcount=35

    and the post above by dbc came from the same computer. Two "different" posters from the same computer with "different" MA backgrounds seemingly trying espouse the strengths of this style? Sounds fishy to me.
  7. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 4:24pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting. Thanks for checking on that Wolf.

    So either HKDsabum (Master McKee) and dbc (Brad Clements) are the same person or both of them are Hwardo students and are both posting from the same computer, presumably the school's. What's also interesting is that at the time of posting HKDsabum claimed that he had only seen videos of Master Kwon after reading about him in a magazine, which would apparently be a lie.

    Hopefully someone will come back with better video as I have requested, or at least come back and continue to put their foot in their mouth.
  8. changchoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 8:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My real name is Grandmaster Chang Sik Choi; I am ninth degree black belt.

    The post by "HKDsabum" was mine. I have limited English and computer skills so I told instructor Clements to write my story for me. I am very impressed with and respect very much Grandmaster Kwon. My goal was to help and promote Grandmaster Kwon and deliver my message to all martial artists, but I thought that a high-level grandmaster personally posting would sound funny. So I told him to create an identity for the forum. I was thinking that everyone uses nicknames and does this sort of thing. I reall was not trying to deceive; I just wanted to convey my excitement and enthusiasm. I want to apologize for the confusion, but I stand by my message.

    If you have any questions or concerns, please visit my website
    www.masterchoiacademy.com or call me at (972) 355 0891
  9. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2007 11:05pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for clearing that up.
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