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  1. Phrost is offline
    Phrost's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 9:35pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My two cents (personal opinion)...

    If you're being honest with yourselves, fighting on the streets is not the most honorable thing a person could do, martial artist or no. Neither is training to hurt/maim/kill someone regardless of the reason.

    People shouldn't have to get their morals from an "art" which is designed to hurt others. That would be like studying to be a dietician at the University of McDonald's. (No relation to this website stated or implied whatsoever, hummana hummana...)

    Unless your school is an organization like the Shaolin Temple, for example, that blends "religion" (Buddhism isn't technically a religion in the Western sense) and martial skill, or an organization that has a specific purpose for martial arts (Police Force, Military, etc), then as individuals, it's not the responsibility of the instructor to teach you morals. In the above cases, morals are needed because each member of the "team" or each disciple at the temple is an integral part of a group working toward a goal. If there were no ground rules (codes of honor, for example) the group could not succeed.

    But your average Dojo in the U.S, at least, doesn't need all that. People go there to train a few days a week, and then go home to their jobs and their lives. If one of them doesn't show up, the school goes on (or goes under if they're not getting enough business...) and nobody cares. If they use their skills to rob an old lady, they are individually responsible for their own actions, being private citizens.
  2. bruceleeroy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 9:59pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it's all on the person,
    the Art can only teach you so much..
  3. Phoenix is offline
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    Stand and Deliver!

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 10:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Martial artists are merely a subculture of society. As such, it's not impossible (nor should it be surprising to anybody here) to find more than a few idiots as members of that subculture.

    After all, there are stupid students, chefs, police officers, doctors, etc....

    Not that I'm pleading anybody's case in particular here, but why can't there be stupid Martial Artists either?

    Le Grill?? What the hell is that?!! - Homer Simpson
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  4. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 10:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ttt with Phrost.

    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Good is the enemy of Great" - T-shirt seen on Queen Street, Toronto
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  5. poet is offline
    poet's Avatar

    Working my way back to health

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 10:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Injury magnet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Phrost
    Unless your school is an organization like the Shaolin Temple, for example, that blends "religion" (Buddhism isn't technically a religion in the Western sense) and martial skill, or an organization that has a specific purpose for martial arts (Police Force, Military, etc), then as individuals, it's not the responsibility of the instructor to teach you morals. In the above cases, morals are needed because each member of the "team" or each disciple at the temple is an integral part of a group working toward a goal. If there were no ground rules (codes of honor, for example) the group could not succeed.
    How is the JD coming? you give good argument.
  6. The Mad Hatter is offline

    Karate Instructor

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    Jul 2003
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 11:02pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting points, one and all. I definately think there is something about taking mature and responsible approach to any martial art/style. It is simply about growing up and being an adult about things. People who go around spouting they can do this, or they can do that, are being immature and usually are the "idiots of the subculture" I think, as Rising Pheonix mentioned. The true martial artist/master has nothing to prove.
  7. Dr_Santo is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2003 11:59pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the word "SELF-CONTROL" sums it up.
  8. InsideOut is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2003 1:28am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since morals come from outside the art, do instructors have a responsibility to only teach "moral" people?
  9. Wu De is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2003 7:49am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Talking of video games, Shenmue has some very good martial arts ethics in it. Shenmue 2 is on Xbox, it's pretty good actually, it even goes into the laws of the Wu De.

    And a lil' old Tai Chi guy is in it too! Loads of cool stuff in the game, like Baji!
  10. illyrus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2003 9:26am


     Style: Sambo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why? If someone wants to hurt someone the odds are that theyll use a gun.
    There are quite a few crimes that have no weapons involved. In fact just glancing at statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice only "in 26% of the incidents of violent crime, a weapon was present." Of course for homicide and robberies the percentage was much higher. Still, a sizable amount of crime is committed without the use of weapons.

    Personally I wouldn't teach someone if I felt them to be a morally reprehensible individual, even if there was a 99% chance they wouldn't use a single thing I taught them in a fight, that 1% would still bother me if I heard they'd mauled someone.


    Wyatt
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