Posted On:7/13/2003 8:17am
Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
For all the confidence on behalf of a few of you, there is suprisingly little evidence beyond your own opinions. We all need to be reminded from time to time that with everything we experience there is a constantly expanding number of things we haven't.
In other words, at least acknowledge that your opinions are based only on your experiences or lack thereof, and if you choose to groundly dismiss something you might want to present at least some technical reasoning to support your statement.
mneal seems to be pretty well grounded in reality. In fact, he gave a reasonable answer to almost every arguement introduced, often before the arguement was even presented.
I do not have much personal aikido experience, but my opinion on the matter is that someone who has been training for 35 years to not get hit is probably pretty good at it. Much of that is probably devoted to shaving off moments of time before moving for the purpose of drawing the attacker in and taking advantage of very slight overextensions.
I, like mneal, acknowledge a large number of weakness in the art. It is a pacifist style, the techniques from Daito ryu have been completely altered to be non-damaging (correct me if I'm wrong on that). It is relatively narrow in study. There is no groundfighting to speak of. Aikidoka also tend to move very well--but only on one level; other than a few bounces there is very little freedom of up/down movement.
At worst, aikido could be valuable to some people for studying footwork, creating space, and timing.
Such as thou art, sometime was I.
Posted On:7/13/2003 8:45am
Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu
I just think people are reacting to the suggestion that 15 years of external CMA practice were worthless based on this guy's experience with the 6th dan aikidoka. If you were attempting to relate only a personal experience, without any generalization of it to larger conclusions, I don't think anyone would care.
I would have to say that I think aikido is designed primarily with an unskilled, or otherwise partially subdued (LEO situations) opponent in mind.
And I actually had an aikidoka explain to me that their kneefighting WAS efficient and effective groundfighting, and that it would shut down low kicks...ummm.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."
Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
Posted On:7/13/2003 9:36am
I actually quite like Aikido, one of my close friends is Taiwan's top ranked Aikido teacher (Steven Lu).
He can use Aikido very proficiently, i mentioned that in general, Aikido practitioners rarely know how to react to certain DiTang movements but Steven was succesful in warding off a couple of my attacks from a knee stance. Very interesting, i would have totally disregarded the knee stance as it looked very immobile and a bit useless, but he proved that it did have it's uses.
He's been studying Aikido for about 20years, i've been studying CMA for about 15, although the gap isn't quite as big, i was still able to land successive hits on him (and he was in turn able to get a few quite damaging throws on me).
Now 15 years versus 35, i still would venture that the CMA stylist would at least be able to get a few hits on the Aikidoka.
Posted On:7/13/2003 10:03am
My background :
10 years of hard core karate
2 years of boxing
2 years of BJJ - My first lessons were with Royler Gracie and I had some private lessons with Helio Gracie himself, after about 1 year of training.
Believe me, this aikido guy was for real !
BTW, your nick "HAPK03" has any connection to Hapkido ??? If it does, I think it's time you change styles and start to learn some real fighting.
If you are willing to try (and we can use Osiris suggestion, VIDEO CAMERA), just come down to Brazil and I will set up a fighting agenda for you !
"Create as a God, command as a King, work as a Slave"
Posted On:7/13/2003 11:26am
Style: Chinese Boxing
Now let me jump in an say bu....
Hold on I won't go that far. I find it still hard to believe that somebody of 10 years hard core karate, and 2 years boxing experiance couldn't "touch" or got man handled by a 6th dan in Aikido.
You sure you weren't subconsciously being a little nice and telegraphing something. Also didn't you mention that you did external Chinese MA? Somethings not adding up here.
I've seen some Aikido guys do some impressive things that weren't in the art. They hit pretty hard too (5th and 6th dans). They actually managed to get right back up after I threw them and counter grappled some of my attempts. Of course then they explained their school cross trained with Judo and Brazillian Jujitsu schools.
But got man handled? Got Dominated?
You my friend must really not have learned much. I actually doubt if you have taken any private lessons with Royler or Helio unless it was over 11 years ago.
Go away I'm talking to myself
Posted On:7/13/2003 12:44pm
I don't know were people got this ideia of me doing CMA. In my first post I said about 15 years of external martial arts, so people would not think I did Tai Chi and say "But that takes 25 years to master, bla , bla, bla ......."
However, I think people have gotten the wrong ideia about what I described.
We got into a clinch 3 times (because I dove in since I was not being able to hit him from the large and medium ranges) and I hit him once very hard during the clinch but it that had no effect. He absorved it very well and was able to put me on a lock several times and I had to tap out. That means .... he won.
When I say I was completely dominated and that I couldn't touch him, I meant he controlled the whole fight, did not get hurt at all, my punches did not alter his balance and he made me tap out many times.
"Create as a God, command as a King, work as a Slave"
Posted On:7/13/2003 1:10pm
whips and chains!
"BTW, your nick "HAPK03" has any connection to Hapkido ??? If it does, I think it's time you change styles and start to learn some real fighting."
he does Krav Maga......he always gets flack for his stupid nick
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
" I'm pretty good when the gi tops come off." Posted by Crimson Tiger
Surfing Facebook at work? Spread the good word by adding us on Facebook today! https://www.facebook.com/Bullshido
Posted On:7/13/2003 3:10pm
Style: 10th Planet JJ
Pizzdoff: I wouldn't talk about stupid nicks if I was you.
Wu Chi : Look man, what I'm saying, and it seems that I'm not the one saying it, is that the things you state in your post do not add up. Either you're misrepresenting what happened in your encounter, misrepresenting your trainining experience, or you just happen to be a very talentless martial artist that hasn't learned anything in 15 years.
Unless, off course, you were traiing once a week and irregularly over the 15 years. You say you did boxing for a couple of years. Where did you fight out of? What's you record?
I remain, Hapko3
You say what about my rice?
Posted On:7/13/2003 3:13pm
Yes, because HAPK03 is the godfather of martial arts and knows all.
Posted On:7/13/2003 3:15pm
I'm impressed, it didn't take you too long to figure that out.
You must be smarter than you came across in the begining.
I remain, Hapko3
Articles and Reviews
Tools and Info