Kung Fu San Soo

**Boyd** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 5:57pm

The two teachers are an undercover narcotics officer and an LA detective.

If this is true, then your instructors must have had personal experience fighting machete-wielding druglords, Jason, and the Terminator. Best thing you can do is check your local video store's "action" aisle and see how many low-budget erotic thrillers they've starred in.

"I do injoy using words like **** **** bitch ho etc."

**Boyd** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 5:58pm

Also, keep your distance from either of them if their family is killed by a ruthless mafia crime boss. They're both liable to turn into a Cop on the Edge With Nothing to Lose, and yours may be the first skull they crack.

"I do injoy using words like **** **** bitch ho etc."

**tallpaul50** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 6:50pm

I can't say I disagree with you guys..BUT from what I've observed being taught in their classes, and what they preach during their demo's, they openly and aggressively promote a "strike first, ask questions later" mentality and spirit. That's fine if you ALREADY have that mentality (as some people do), but what about the novice young man/woman that walks in off the street wanting to learn kungfu/karate and doesn't know any better? Don't we, as martial artist, have a responsability to our future brethren in the arts?

**Deadpan Scientist** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 6:52pm

You only fight when you have to. Once you know you're going to have to fight, why not take the initiative to attack first and keep going unti lthe other person can no longer continue.

**Blad3** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 6:57pm

"I have heard a lot of criticism of many San Soo schools as McDojos." - lol where from?

"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott

**ClintEQ** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 7:07pm

Various articles/posters online saying that they cater to over agressive idiots and teach them a bullshit fighting style. I havent really heard them mentioned at all on this forum.

**tallpaul50** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 8:36pm

The problem with attacking first is this. If both of you are approximately the same physical size, AND you attack first...regardless of who started the fight (we're assumning verbally), then from a viewpoint of the LAW, you are then considered the attacker. If you cause damage to the person, then YOU are responsible.

An example: Say this drunk idiot named Mr Biker-dude comes up to you. Same size as you, about the same age, but he's loud, obnoxious, tattoo's all along his arms..typical stereotype "biker-dude", and it appears immenent that you will be attacked by him, so you decide to strike first, and strike hard!

OK, you give your best karate scream as you smash his nose and break it. You take out a tooth or two, shatter a knee and make sure he will never again father any little biker-dudes.

Wow, you're pretty impressive there guy! Took that sucker out in 4 seconds FLAT! I'm IMPRESSED!

Now, the cops arrive on the scene. They look at Mr Biker-dude stretched out on the ground. Blood gushing from his nose and mouth as he lays on the ground grasping what's left of his manhood.

Mr. Cop asks you.."What happened here?" You say "Well sir, thsi guy was nasty and ungly looking, obviously drunk and it looked like he was going to attack me (but remember, he didn't!)..so I nailed him first! Several witness's say the same thing to Mr. Cop.

The cops say.."You have the right to remain silent..."(Miranda Act), spin you around and put the cuffs on you and haul your butt to jail...all the while you're thinking..."What for?"

What you ask? Because bud, you just attacked and busted up Mr. Biker-dude, when there was no apparent reason to! And another thing you'll find out if this ever happens to you, is if the court finds out that you are a trained martial artist...and God forbid, a BLACK BELT one at that..then you ass is REALLY going to be in the sling! Teh courst look at martial arts black belts the same way they look at profession boxers in a street fight. They consider you to have an unfair advantage over anotehr man of the approximate physical size, and because of that, you are expected to BEHAVE YOURSELF and use your well honed skills to ONLY PROTECT yourself and ONLY use the mount of force necessary to keep yourself safe...NOTHING MORE. Sucks, huh? lol

Boils down to this. You have the right to protect your personal space. If someone invades that space, you are allowed BY LAW to use a MINIMUM and REASONABLE amount of FORCE to protect that space. Whether if be your personal body, or your home. The situation described above was overkill, and if the biker-dude wished to press charges, he would no doubt win in the sense that you would spend some time in jail, end up paying his medical bills, loss of wages, pain and suffering, and probably have to make love to Mr.s Biker-dude twice a week while he recovers! Trust me bud, she looks JUST like him..down to the tattoos and BEARD!

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 8:42pm

"The problem with attacking first is this. If both of you are approximately the same physical size, AND you attack first...regardless of who started the fight (we're assumning verbally), then from a viewpoint of the LAW, you are then considered the attacker. If you cause damage to the person, then YOU are responsible. "

That is not true. Here you go again, speaking with authority over things you don't know. I can tell you for a fact that in the two states I have lived in, that is Massachusetts and California, you are allowed to preemptively strike in the case of "percieved and immenent threat".

Please, pretty please with sugar on top, don't talk about things you don't know. People just might listen to you...

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I remain, Hapko3

**ClintEQ** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 9:00pm

I live in California KAPK03, and I think that tallpaul makes a good point. That may be the law, but a cop or jury may have trouble seeing the imminent threat of the the crippled man in front of them. Obviously, you dont want to use San Soo carelessly. But better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. At my studio we generally train off of an attack from someone else, but obviously are capable of taking the offensive. Paul is especially right about Jurys freaking out about your training. With an art like San Soo, the prosecutor can twist it around and make you sound like the Taxi Driver.

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 7/13/2003 9:13pm

Clint: There's a number of things one can do to dispose the jury in your favor - you can yell "I don't want any trouble" a few times before lashing out, or anything else to that matter.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating walking around attacking people without a reason. That's common fucking sense. What pisses me off is people who speak out of their ass and misinform those around them. If you don't know what you're talking about, shut the **** up. Simple as that.

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I remain, Hapko3