Thread: Attn: Rigante; regarding SCARS
12/17/2003 7:10pm, #1
Attn: Rigante; regarding SCARS
As a SCARS practitioner capable of forming sentences lacking condescension and personal insults, how do you view Scars within the bullshido/mcdojo context?
The reason many here make a priori decisions regarding the style is the incredible claims made. They certainly appear to fit the mold of any other run of the mill fanciful bullshido. Comments taken directly from the SCARS website that are of particular note are pasted below.
As a side note, this is not intended as a troll, objective reports on the SCARS videos report them to be run of the mill for martial arts and certainly effective technique-wise in regards to striking, Iím not trying to question your fighting or self-defense proficiency.
Thanks for your consideration of these points.
The Three Biggest Lies The Best Martial Artists
And Other Self Proclaimed Fighting "Gurus"
Insist That You Believe
2. The Martial Artists and Competitive Sport Fighters want you to believe it takes years just to learn the basics. Of course they do! It took them years. Why should you learn it any faster? (With the Peterson's Gestalt Method -tm of Quick Training you learn in hours what these "experts" still fail to see let alone learn about real fighting.)
3. They insist your Martial Arts skills rapidly deteriorate without constant practice... and that's just to stay reasonably proficient. (SCARS instantly codes this devastating fighting knowledge directly to your long term memory... no more endless hours of boring punches and kick to the air. That's fine for kids... but then again you're not a kid and that's not real fighting)
Look, don't make it difficult on yourself. The biggest lie out there is that it takes years to become a good fighter.
Using SCARS Scientific Fighting System Guarantees
You'll Annihilate ANY Violent Physical Attack
When Jerry realized that if combat soldiers were to have the best opportunity to survive the most brutal battles during war it was ESSENTIAL that they receive hand-to-hand combat training which had the following criteria:
∑ Must be an Unbeatable Combat Fighting System
∑ Is based on 100% proven scientific principles
∑ Works regardless of the threat
∑ Seamlessly integrates modern combat weapons
∑ Utilizes natural body movement
∑ Is quickly learned and easily retained
Here Are Some "Secrets" You'd Already Have... If You
Owned The SCARS Fighting Package
3. Three critical secrets which increase your long-term retention of these SCARS techniques... without memorization! (Lesson 13)
9. Weaken any attacker by striking this "secret" gland (Lesson 15).
How Important Is Being In Shape?
1. SCARS works regardless of your athletic ability because it relies on science not athleticism. (Even if you think you're a klutz with two left feet and you can't dance SCARS isn't about dancing... it's about fighting and it won't let you down.)
2. SCARS moves are based on natural movement and, just like running, swimming or riding a bike, once mastered you never forget how to use them. This means you remain completely proficient without continual practice.
3. The need for you to be in great shape is a myth (in training, Jerry Peterson proved this by consistently "defeating" SEALs both on land and water - yet Jerry wasn't even in particularly good shape, and certainly not a great swimmer!). Jerry reveals his secret as part of your training!
4. You don't need size or strength, you need the secret of proper alignment (a 120 pound woman cracked the sternum of a 280-pound monster of a man in one training session).
What About Using My Hands As Weapons?
1. A 2-hit combination GUARANTEED to break your attacker's jaw... every single time!
3. The "secret" to attacking 3 targets in one action (hint: it's not speed hitting!)
4. How a simple, virtually unknown hand movement can make the difference between a devastating take down... or a deadly prolonged confrontation (Lesson 16).
With SCARS You'd Be Able To ...
1. Infuse the fearless mindset quickly and easily applying the secrets of N.O.L.S.
With SCARS You'd Already Know This About Fighting On The Ground:
1. A simple roll technique that can split a ribcage... in an instant.
2. The scientifically correct way to "body-slam" your attacker without endangering your central nervous system (grapplers make this mistake all the time).
4. The one SCARS grappling technique which devastates your attacker... and yet does NOT require you to grapple.
5. Why keeping your attacker's head pinned flat to the ground can save your life (let even an inch off the ground and you're at risk).
6. How to use the laws of physical science to create an arm bar from which your attacker CANNOT escape (Lesson 6).
7. How to use a simple "bump-lift" to cause a 300-pound attacker to fall over himself... even if you weigh only 120 pounds soaking wet! (Lesson 10).
If You Were A SCARS Trained Fighter You'd Already Know
The Hidden Power Of Dynamic Breathing...
1. How to choose the correct sound... when 2 opposing muscle movementsare used together (Lesson 7).
2. When to use sounds in fighting... and when you absolutely must NOT (Lesson 6).
3. A simple "sound" which dramatically increases your basic knee drop power... by 50% (Lesson 12).
And that's just the tip of the iceberg
12/17/2003 8:15pm, #2
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Boxing, BJJ
I view that as mostly marketing hype and bullshit. I wish they wouldnt do that. On the other hand, I have spent over 30 years in the MA's with a focus on learning and doing streetworthy techniques. To date I have not found a system anywhere that has as good a methodology for hand to weapons combat IMHO and the training I recieved in hand to weapons goes far beyond what I have ever had before or heard anyone else do. That is why I study the SCARS material. Its not the sole material I practice, I confess to being a MA whore, I will take any technique from any system as long as its meets my needs. The day I find better hand to weapons material I will leave the SCARS material behind, but untill then I will practice and use it. I know a lot of people are understandably put off by the hype but I dont believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
12/17/2003 8:21pm, #3
from the marketing it seems that the hand to hand is a major, if not the major, emphasis, does this differ from the actual curriculum?
Also are comments about not practicing actual within pedagogical material or simply ads?
12/17/2003 8:32pm, #4
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
In their defense they are not an art. They are selling a product. I have seen many horribly upset and embarrassed engineers after they saw what the marketing people were saying about their product. Overaggressive/inaccurate marketing is not a great sign but usually the people responsible for creating something and for selling it are totally different. I know nothing about this product though.
12/17/2003 8:39pm, #5
I was just at a small companies prelaunch for a new IT program.
Being shown around their facilities was fun.
The marketing person: These people are working on some additional features
The IT person: No we're not, we're working on getting the bugs out.
The marketing person: No, you are working on additional features.
The IT person: No, we're working on bugs.
The marketing person: There are no bugs in this progam.
The IT person: Whatever, don't ask me what I'm doing if you don't want the answer.
Good fun.The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
12/17/2003 10:07pm, #6
- Join Date
- Nov 2003
- none yet
I wonder what the blurb about it would say if it was written not by the marketers, and without the intention to sell the product
12/17/2003 10:32pm, #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
It's kind of interesting really. It uses really hardcore marketing methodology. It's used to sell pretty much anything, it's kind of just cut and paste for this. For instance, fear is a major reason people don't buy- fear of buyer remorse, getting ripped off etc. Classic marketing methodology says first address a customers worst case fears. (What if I can't remember it, what if I'm out of shape, what about grapplers) that leaves him with no reasons NOT to buy it, so all you need is a very slight nudge to get the sale.
t's a tough call, I know my company produces a better product but I see other companies with far worse products use better marketing to get more sales. I can say, well it's okay for them to lie but I won't. But the fact is my refusal to lie/exaggerate just means that more people buy an inferior product. So a lot of inventors and engineers are easily swayed to use this kind of marketing.
Really it's so by the book here that I don't think the person writing it even knew the system- a good marketing guy could sit down with a practitioner of ANY martial art and whip something like this out in an afternoon. If the teachers start to believe this kind of marketing fluff it could seriously hurt the system. Are there any video clips of this thing?
12/18/2003 12:51am, #8
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Boxing, BJJ
I took my level 1 in February of 1999 so it may have changed but in essence one day was spent hand to hand upright, 1/2 day was ground fighting, 1/2 day was multifighting and one day hand to weapons.
I took level 2 Dec of 2000. ( I had to look up the dates due to other issues here on the forum). There was maybe a 1/2 day of one on one hand to hand, used primarily as warm ups, The rest was pretty much multifighting and hand to weapon, with sometimes a both hand to weapon and muliifhting combined.
Hope this helps
12/18/2003 5:02am, #9
Since I went through a self defense program that had a similar educational philosphy, "we can hard wire certain techniques into you in a short time and they will not require more than a yearly refresher to maintain" perhaps I can comment on that sort of claim which one sees not only in SCARS, but other programs, Model Mugging, Peyton Quinn, ect.
Imagine if you told a traditional martial arts instructor, something like, "you have 40 hours with a small group of people, teach them say your 10 most practical techniques that work toogether, the ones that also requires the least amount of practice to maintain, and you can use full contact methods that you would not use in a normal McDojo class." Lets further suppose for the sake of argument that this instructor had real fighting experience, a good head on their shoulders, and was both a gifted and ORGANIZED teacher. There is a difference, a gifted teacher might produce good product but may require much more time to do so because they had not organized their instruction in a logical progression where each lesson reinforced what was learned in a previous lesson.
You might get a result in which your students, forced to repeatly apply a palm strike had indeed mastered this technique in this short time and could maintain something of this technique as years passed. However such approaches miss the obvious point that continued practice makes any technique better, and being in good shape is an asset in almost any fight regardless of how long the fight lasts, because anything over a few seconds requires a disproportunate level of energy.
It is true that there are street brawlers out there who have a lot of fights and this has been their sole instruction in how to fight. If one added up all their fight time it would result in only hours not years of "instruction". Perhaps hoever, this experience turns out good fighters who start with certain attributes not equally distributed across the general population. Like coordination, speed, strength, aggression ect. The old comment about certain people being "born" fighters seem to applies in such cases.
What I am saying is that the short concentrated approach (if done well) will impart something of value to a lot of people but it is a mistake to state or imply that continued practice and physical fitness will not dramatically improve performance.
12/18/2003 7:46am, #10
On a side note, Peyton Quinn's adreanline based system is pretty cool, the Rocky Mountain Training camp gives you some pretty good insight on how to handle the "adrenaline dump".