Sparing an American Kenpo Guy

**elipson** · Posted On: 7/09/2003 1:35am

Another thing which is absolutely amazing, is how little grappling you need to know in order to completely take out of their element and dominate untrained people.

that is frighteningly true.

***TaeBo_Master*** · Posted On: 7/09/2003 1:35am

Sounds like a 3/4 spin side kick

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 7/09/2003 11:36am

epsilon : Yeah, I felt like fucking Royce Gracie, despite the fact that barely even know what I'm supposed to be doing, much less able to do it right.

TaeBo Master: Yeah, that sounds about right... All in all, it's not a very good kick. After I saw it a few times, I would scoop it ot the side, let his momentum carry him forward, and wind up behing his back free to put him in a choke, throw him, or do whatever else I wanted to. But at first, I got nailed.

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I remain, Hapko3

**Punisher** · Posted On: 7/09/2003 12:16pm

"Strange. I thought Ed Parkers people (American Kenpo) would be able to an MMA fighter because Parker stress realistic situations i.e. less rules (so striking below the waste etc). This is just from articles I've read."

What Ed Parker said and what he and his students did are two different things. Parker organized American Kenpo into 11 katas and 172 self-defense techniques. The katas were pretty much standard fair, and the "self-defense techniques" were predetermined partner drills where the attacker attacks and the kenpo guy defends and proceeds to fire off up to twenty undefended against strikes in response.

I trained in American Kenpo for over a decade and I was never able to perform anything resembling a "self-defense technique" in sparring or in a real fight. Many of the self-defense techinuqes have bad fighting strategy and would be disadvatageous to you if you tried to actually use one.

Parker separated sparring into two realms, tournament style and freestyle. Tournament style was like what most people do, basically kick boxing for points. What he called freestyle was fighting basically no rules using kenpo techniques and strategy. His "sparring techniques" were combinations that were to be used in this setting. These included low-line kicks and strikes like palm heels and stuff like that.

It may be a mostly a lilabilty issue, but I never, ever saw anyone actually spar "freestyle".

As far as American Kenpo goes, I think it basically sucks, and as a whole is pretty sorry. Ed Parker could kick ass, but as I said before, that was most probably due to him being a big ass hawaiian with a seriously bad attitude. I truly feel my dojo was one of the best American Kenpo schools in the country and even we eventually wised up and realized that this stuff wouldn't work and switched to something else.

<marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>

**XtremeJ_AKKI** · Posted On: 7/14/2003 8:38am

I trained in American Kenpo for over a decade and I was never able to perform anything resembling a "self-defense technique" in sparring or in a real fight. Many of the self-defense techinuqes have bad fighting strategy and would be disadvatageous to you if you tried to actually use one.

As far as American Kenpo goes, I think it basically sucks, and as a whole is pretty sorry. Ed Parker could kick ass, but as I said before, that was most probably due to him being a big ass hawaiian with a seriously bad attitude. I truly feel my dojo was one of the best American Kenpo schools in the country and even we eventually wised up and realized that this stuff wouldn't work and switched to something else.

Ah, the age old " I couldn't make it work, so it must suck " divination.

That's rather odd, considering I know plenty of AK people who have done considerably well on the street with this stuff.

By the way, who was your instructor, and what was the name and location of your school? If ya'll were that good, I might have heard of it.

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 7/14/2003 11:32am

"Ah, the age old " I couldn't make it work, so it must suck " divination."

Bullshit.

I know that you're just being defensive of your art, which is perfectly understandable. However, AK, the way it was taught to me, was a bad system. The cirriculum and the katas were full of useless and unrealistic techniques, and the sparring was limited to the kicking and punching ranges.

Actually, my sparring partner that I described in the begining of this thread seemed to be learning a better system. This is due, in part, to their instructor's sense (he actually tells them that certain techniques are to be learned for grading, but should never be done in sparring or fighting) and the fact that he is crosstraining in boxing with my ex coach. As a system, Ed Parker American Kenpo is not a very good one. Now I'm sure that some people can weed out the bullshit and turn it into a viable martial art, but the way it's supposed to be taught sucks.

"That's rather odd, considering I know plenty of AK people who have done considerably well on the street with this stuff. "

So what? A bunch of untrained people do very well on the street without any training. By your silly logic, we should forget martial arts.

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I remain, Hapko3

**Blad3** · Posted On: 7/14/2003 1:51pm

"I got nailed with a weird spinning side kick to the midsection ***twice*** before I started recognizing it." Spinning back kick...

"They are not allowed to kick below the waist. Once again, WHAT THE **** ARE THEY THINKING?" yeah you cant do that in american kickboxing either, though they have some good fighters, especially once they adpat to MT style rules.

"4. They are not taught how to clinch and grapple. I could take him down at ease, and had free reign on the ground. He absolutely loved grappling though, and is going to look into it, which I thik is a good thing." the most natural and easy way to fight, I don't blame him for liking it.

Another thing which is absolutely amazing, is how little grappling you need to know in order to completely take out of their element and dominate untrained people.

Yes this is true, I agree 100%.

"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott

**thomasaaron** · Posted On: 7/14/2003 2:00pm

I'm actually pretty good at a spinning side-kick. Interestingly, I learned it while practicing TKD (which I no longer do). I learned it because I was never any good at a spinning back kick. It just came out like a...spinning side kick.

Anyway, I have had a lot of success at slipping it in just below the rib cage with GREAT regularity. For some reason, it's just hard as hell to block.

Fighting Spirit is 90% of the battle. If you don't have it, you ain't **** -- regardless of what style you practice.

**Punisher** · Posted On: 7/14/2003 2:52pm

"By the way, who was your instructor, and what was the name and location of your school? If ya'll were that good, I might have heard of it."

Check my profile, it's all there. My instructor is Trevor Haines and he trained under Larry Tatum. We would routinely go down and test in front of Larry and blow his students out of the water. As I said my instructor had questions about the art and Larry didn't have any answers. My instructor had to look elsewhere.

<marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 7/14/2003 3:20pm

"Anyway, I have had a lot of success at slipping it in just below the rib cage with GREAT regularity. For some reason, it's just hard as hell to block."

Well, going by my experience with this firned of mine, it's a great trick that only works once (or in my case twice). After I learned to see it coming, it's very easu to scoop the kick past you, and step behind your oponents back.

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I remain, Hapko3