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  1. Matt Stone is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2003 9:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, CMA, & more

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having been an Army Drill Sergeant, I can tell you that there is both in training environments as well as at "real" units a zero tolerance for training injuries. The emphasis is on safety, whether you like that or not. It is inappropriate and flatly silly (given that you could be called out at any time) to allow soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to be injured in training when such injuries can be prevented. It is a strength management issue - if the techniques are that devastating, and we allowed such injuries to occur regularly, how many troops would be ready at any given time to fight for real? Not as many, since tons of them would have been incapacitated during training...

    Unlike a civilian McDojo, the military has a specific goal when fighting the enemy, and it rarely involves knocking him down so we can run to get the cops. If our techniques work, and we go full out with no concern for safety, then we would have deaths to report, not just broken legs.

    He isn't a *****. He got kicked, got injured, and now the powers that be are looking into why something so easily prevented wasn't...

    As for evading or getting out of the way??? Please. He is a recruit being introduced to the MCMAP method for the first time. He wouldn't have had the skill to get out of the way. That is likely the main reason they are investigating the DI for inappropriate conduct - someone who is skilled taking advantage of an unskilled opponent and injuring them in the process. Bad news no matter how you look at it.

    Gambarimasu.
  2. Fisting Kittens is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2003 10:27pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    --rolls eyes--

    ---------
    Shut up and train
  3. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2003 12:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having been an Army Drill Sergeant, I can tell you that there is both in training environments as well as at "real" units a zero tolerance for training injuries. The emphasis is on safety, whether you like that or not. It is inappropriate and flatly silly (given that you could be called out at any time) to allow soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to be injured in training when such injuries can be prevented. It is a strength management issue - if the techniques are that devastating, and we allowed such injuries to occur regularly, how many troops would be ready at any given time to fight for real? Not as many, since tons of them would have been incapacitated during training...

    Unlike a civilian McDojo, the military has a specific goal when fighting the enemy, and it rarely involves knocking him down so we can run to get the cops. If our techniques work, and we go full out with no concern for safety, then we would have deaths to report, not just broken legs.

    He isn't a *****. He got kicked, got injured, and now the powers that be are looking into why something so easily prevented wasn't...

    As for evading or getting out of the way??? Please. He is a recruit being introduced to the MCMAP method for the first time. He wouldn't have had the skill to get out of the way. That is likely the main reason they are investigating the DI for inappropriate conduct - someone who is skilled taking advantage of an unskilled opponent and injuring them in the process. Bad news no matter how you look at it.

    Gambarimasu.

    Excellent post.

    Gambale.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  4. Mr. Nice Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2003 12:04pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "The emphasis is on safety, whether you like that or not."
    -Yiliquan1

    Sorry, that is wrong, whether you like it or not. That may be what you believe, but it isn't the truth.

    Safety may be an emphasis, an important emphasis even, but it isn't the primary one. If personal safety were the primary emphasis of military training, you'd all just stay home. Forget the guns, bombs, tanks, planes, hand-to-hand, just stay home.

    No, the primary emphasis is learning to kill on command. Learning to kill with as much personal safety as possible, maybe, but still learning to kill on command, even at the cost of the soldier's own life.




    Edited by - Mr. Nice Guy on July 05 2003 12:06:41
  5. Matt Stone is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2003 7:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, CMA, & more

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "The emphasis is on safety, whether you like that or not."
    -Yiliquan1

    Sorry, that is wrong, whether you like it or not. That may be what you believe, but it isn't the truth.

    Safety may be an emphasis, an important emphasis even, but it isn't the primary one. If personal safety were the primary emphasis of military training, you'd all just stay home. Forget the guns, bombs, tanks, planes, hand-to-hand, just stay home.

    No, the primary emphasis is learning to kill on command. Learning to kill with as much personal safety as possible, maybe, but still learning to kill on command, even at the cost of the soldier's own life.
    And you get this misguided concept from your current active duty status and your extensive knowledge of military training guidance?

    Or not.

    When I say that the emphasis is on safety, I mean to say that the emphasis is on safety during training. You do NOT hack away at your own resources during training, thereby hamstringing your ability to perform your real-world mission.

    War is inherently dangerous. Thanks for reminding all of us. But the doctrine still remains that we fight a better fight when we conserve our strength and preserve our ability to wage war rather than thowing it away in the manner you describe.

    As far as "learning to kill on command, even at the cost of the soldier's own life," I suspect you either read too many novels or watch too many movies. The modern training doctrine deals with increasing the survivability of the soldier on the battlefield, not on using soldiers like human waves to overwhelm the enemy. That was the Chinese army during the Korean War, not the US. That may be what you believe, but it isn't the truth.

    Gambarimasu.
  6. MuayThaiBri67 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2003 8:25pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And...I was poking fun at the fact that this "athletic" kid was athletic as a golfer, skiier, and swimmer. The people I know who base their athleticism on those sports tend to be pussies. (not saying that these sports aren't tough to compete in, they just don't really encompass a well rounded athlete like other sports).

    Have you tried competive swimming at all? I doubt it from your statment. But try to swim a few laps in an olympic sized pool sometime. I do agree with you about golf though.
  7. MuayThaiBri67 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2003 8:28pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh by the way those were some excellent posts Yiliquan.
  8. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2003 2:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    And you get this misguided concept from your current active duty status and your extensive knowledge of military training guidance?

    Or not.

    When I say that the emphasis is on safety, I mean to say that the emphasis is on safety during training. You do NOT hack away at your own resources during training, thereby hamstringing your ability to perform your real-world mission.

    War is inherently dangerous. Thanks for reminding all of us. But the doctrine still remains that we fight a better fight when we conserve our strength and preserve our ability to wage war rather than thowing it away in the manner you describe.

    As far as "learning to kill on command, even at the cost of the soldier's own life," I suspect you either read too many novels or watch too many movies. The modern training doctrine deals with increasing the survivability of the soldier on the battlefield, not on using soldiers like human waves to overwhelm the enemy. That was the Chinese army during the Korean War, not the US. That may be what you believe, but it isn't the truth.

    Gambarimasu.
    In hand-to-weapon training, we have a canon of law we never violate, and that is to always protect our partners. It's never about how much "better" we are than the individuals we instruct and we're certainly not trying to break them. That's the behavior of amateurs and a certain MCMAP instructor.

    I wouldn't worry about the idiot disagreeing with you, he's not terribly bright. Just another loudmouth, "know-it-all" dojo warrior. Baka ga naoranai (Chuckling)

    PS. Another great post.





    Edited by - kungfoolss on July 06 2003 02:20:19
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
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