Thread: US marines learning WT
7/07/2003 7:32am, #51Your understanding of military training, military hand to hand combat programs, the special operations community and contracted instructors is flawed...
I apologize for stating a known, verifiable fact.
7/07/2003 7:34am, #52
7/07/2003 12:02pm, #53
- Join Date
- Jul 2003
- Los Angeles, CA
20. Why are there rank prerequisites for earning the higher belts?
Tan – entry level training.
Grey – no rank requirement.
Green – Corporal and above.
Brown – Corporal and above.
Black – Sergeant and above.
Rank prerequisites are tied to the belt ranking system to ensure Marines possess the maturity, judgment and moral character required for advancement.
Seems a bit silly that for adults, the MCMAP belt ranking and advancement is tied to their military rank. Which is ridiculous because military rank does not confer H2H fighting ability, one does not have anything to do with the other; not unless it is structured in such an asinine manner.
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You said it right there: "Rank prerequisites are tied to the belt ranking system to ensure Marines possess the maturity, judgment and moral character required for advancement." The Marine Corps tries to tie in a lot of moral/ethical instructional periods into the martial arts training to make sure that people don't go "out in town" and start trying to pick fights (which Marines are apt to do anyway, especially while travelling in packs) using all the stuff that they learned.
And it seems as if some people have the requisite thing mixed up.. you don't get to a certain level then get promoted as a result of it. The rank is a prerequisite for the next belt level. A higher proportion of the stuff that they teach you at the green belt level is pretty lethal, which is why they institute the Corporal or above (Non-Commissioned Officer and above) requisite. Remember, too, that everything in the Marine Corps is waiverable, so if a brand new Private or Private First Class IS at a high level in another MA, they can easily petition up their chain of command to have some of those rank requirements removed.
7/07/2003 6:27pm, #54
As for WT I think it is pretty use in the army if you mix it with boxing, MT and grappling. The chain punches are easy to learn. Most of the blocks can be quickly learnt and the grab and punch technique is very good against someone with a knife. Easy to learn low kicks to the kneesand Light grappling/ intercepting techniques. Very straight forward martial art.
"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"Ghost of Charles Dickens
7/07/2003 9:12pm, #55Originally posted by Amp
The U.S. Military has been learning Wing Chun for a long time. My Sigung Brian Edwards has been teaching Army personnel and Special Forces in Fayetteville, North Carolina for many years now.
No offense intended. Like I posted previously, I have run into so many people whose instruction was linked in some tenuous fashion to their interaction with the military community, but who in fact had nothing more than a temp contract with the local gym, that I am very sensitive when someone makes claims to teaching the military.
7/09/2003 7:31am, #56
I understand. There are a lot of people out there who like to put "taught the U.S. Military" on their resumes.
No offense taken.
7/09/2003 10:07am, #57
- Join Date
- Feb 2003
- Durham NC
Amp what the hell u talking about? i know your kung fu inst on par with anyone at your school esp some big guy i hear goes that, his Kung Fu is tight as hell. LOL just messing with you, lol.
Maybe u should tell eveyone here about your BBQ, lol
7/09/2003 2:56pm, #58
7/09/2003 3:56pm, #59
There is a giant in our class. And his WC is tight as hell. But ****, he practically lives at the Kwoon. But...he always finds the time to help me out. : )
And since I can't take all my anger out on him, the other poor folks at the school will feel my wrath.
7/10/2003 9:13pm, #60
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Northwest Florida
- submission wrestling
Alright, I finally had enough of the agony of listening to you guys debate the MCMAP. I emailed a buddy of mine on the USS Tarawa (Aaron is a Marine Corporal who used to train at my gym) and asked him about the whole thing. Here is his response:
MCMAP. Funny you should ask. Well, it is mandatory training for EVERYONE. All Marines on this ship have to be a 'green belt' before we get back. Here is the skinny on MCMAP.... It is a system of close combat developed by some guys on the east coast. They teach empty hand, knife, baton and rifle techniques. There is A LOT of ground work from brown belt to black, and they teach basic ground techniques for all the other belts as well. The only problem is that their ground techniques are absolutely horrible, I mean crappy. I am not fond of their knife or baton fighting either, having done both of them the Kali way. I will happily show you just how horrible they are. The fact is, I'm a BJJ blue belt, and I dont consider myself a very good one, either. I used to go over to the big MCMAP school for the west coast (Division Schools) and there was not a single person there that could get me. In fact, I have been running the 'fight club' on ship, everyone knows me, and not even my chain of command has pushed me to take part in MCMAP. So, I have not done a day of it.
Some jarheads believe in this stuff like its a religion and get very offended that I think its crap. But it is taught too much like traditioinal Karate and the techniques look too much like traditional karate for me to take to it. But, that is only my opinion.
A few of the MCMAP instructors train at the 'Fight Club' with me in the evenings. We have a good crew that trains every night from 7-9:30pm (19-21:30 for you officer types) I coach the submissions, there are a couple of top notch wrestlers that coach takedowns, and there is an absolutely bad ass (formewr pro) boxer that works with us on our stand up, as well as a guy that is a Thai boxer. So at least I have a good training group. FightSport is going to print a story I wrote about our little club.
Well, I have babbled enough.
Sounds like a pretty good description to me. In case any one is curious, Aaron turned out to be the guy who runs that on-ship MMA club that has that video on this website (the one with the match between the MMA guy and the point-fighting karate guy who gets tapped out with a rear naked choke). I remember laughing at the video but didn't realize that Aaron was the man running the show.
"Go cry about it Vargas. Aren't you late for your shift at McDonald's?""I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."
- George Plimpton