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  1. Blad3 is offline

    Senior Member

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    May 2002
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 5:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Toughman it's self isn't "real" boxing, more brawling, they've rarely had any boxing experience.

    This is a terrible thing, but is th erisk of real, full contact fighting. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

    "Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
    "If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  2. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 6:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys that are blaming the victim are flat out wrong. You make me sick. The people that are saying "you should know when to quit" are some of the same people that say "If you don't go full contact, you're not training" and "People need to sack up a fight". One of the common things say about boxing and the like are "Oh I know so and so lost, but at least they went the distance".

    I saw a whole story on this on HBO. They showed a guy, who looked in a lot better shape than I, get killed by a light punch on the back of the neck. Apparently he had a broken blood vesel from an earlier fight 24 hours before, and that one blow was enough to kill him. He felt completely heathly and was checked out by a doctor before the fight.

    I also recently read a article about a guy who was rolling at his dojo and ended up with a broken neck. The thing is, no one knows how it happened. He was a like a lot of us, just going to the dojo a couple of times a week for some good natured fun and competition. He and his partner are going at it and all of a sudden he just goes limp. He wasn't thrown, he wasn't neck cranked, his neck just snapped. He is now a quad.

    Stuff like this is rare, but it CAN happen to anyone. This means you, and it means me. And for all you guys that keep saying MMA is much safer than boxing, for the most part you are right, but is it still dangerous as hell. Yes no one has died on PPV at UFC or Pride, but it is only a matter of time before it happens.

    Many of the fighters don't exhibit the long term damage boxers have, but how long have they been relaly doing it? How many MMA guys have 40 or 50 pro fights under their belts against top opponents?

    <marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>
  3. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 6:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes it is a risk and when you step into the ring you except that. That is why it is largely her responsibility. Its called self-accountability.

    She had seen fights, you get hit in the head you're at risk. If she couldn't figure that out then she already had brain damage.

    .
    .
    .
    My single chopstick is bad at serving soup, cutting steaks and basting roasts and chickens. Besides that it owns.
  4. Blad3 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 7:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's a sad thing though, she probably realised this, but didn't except to become this badly hurt/killed obviously. It's a possibility she seriously did already have some type of serious injury, before stepping into the ring.



    "Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
    "If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  5. PizDoff is offline

    .

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    Location
    Toronto
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    18,602

    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 7:15pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    bloody hell....

    "Family members said Stacy Young, who entered the Toughman Competition thinking it would be fun, "
    fun? fun to be hit in the head? have these drunks ever seen a boxing match? we all learn somehow....


    "Additionally, what kind of corner do these people have?"
    *sigh*
    too bad regrets don't change anything



    "A man once died in a fight, apparently randomly, of a heart attack, only for people to realize later that the type of heart attack he sustained could only have been incited by a specific type of blow at a specific angle at a specific time in the heartbeat. Although the odds were 1 in a 1,000,000, he got jipped by fate and payed the price."
    commotio cordis, i posted a thead about this...

    --
    Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
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  6. Blad3 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 7:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well sparring/"fair" fighting is very, very fun PizDoff, so I don't blame her. It's just a tradegy for thwm <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>



    "Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
    "If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  7. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 7:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Punisher,
    Blaming the victim? What are you talking about?

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. MuayThaiBri67 is offline
    MuayThaiBri67's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 8:04pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is a shame, but it does happen. I've seen drunk guys get into the ring at those clubs that offer amature fights. Only more of these accidents will happen. As far a toughman goes, well the problem there is the ref should of stopped the fight. The woman was clearly out match, and fell a couple times. The ref should of stopped the fight.
  9. Blad3 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 8:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah when the eyes "go" you have got to pull the person out of it..

    "Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
    "If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  10. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 8:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Punisher,
    Blaming the victim? What are you talking about?"

    Are you serious?!? I'm talking about **** like this!

    I think the respnsibility lies with her.

    To put it simply, the woman is dead because of her own stupidity, the stupidity of her husband, and irresponcible practices on part of the people running the show.

    Its really about having the common sense to call it quits.

    kids, no health insurance, and husband's salary is not enough for whole family... what was she thinking? Either don't go in the ring, or call it quits early enough...
    She wasn't a victim of a crime, but she was a victim of a unforseen tradgey. Yes, she took a risk. She was expecting an ass kicking. She did not expect to die. It would have been no different if she was a female auto racer who got in a crash or if she was a skydiver whose chute didn't open. I guess some of you guys would still say, "She was stupid for getting in the car" or "what was she thinking jumping out of a plane?" What makes it worse is many of the people blaming here take the same risks on a routine basis by particapating in similar behavior, yet still believe that this could not happen to them.

    These Toughman contests are misleading in the fact they they APPEAR to be safe and nothing more than good clean fun. The particapants wear headgear, mouth pieces, and oversized gloves. The fights are 3 1 minute rounds. A lot of people that enter these competitions pride them selves on being "tough guys" and see this as a safe way to scrap with out ending up in jail or the morgue.

    Does anyone really think this lady thought there was ANY chance at all she could be effectively beaten to death under these circumstances. It is not like her family had a whole lot of time to evaluate what was happening to her and what type of danger she was in. By all accounts she was still standing and still fighting. They wanted to save her pride by allowing her to say she went the distance and took her beating like a woman. That perfectly understandable, if incorrect decision, contributed to her dying.

    I guess what I am most upset about is the people who claim she was stupid, but don't acknowledge that it could have happened to anyone. I wouldn't particapate in a contest like this, but I do spar with a fair amount of contact on a regulsr basis. What this envokes in me is a renewed feeling that I am responsible for my partners safety as much as he is. I don't want to seriously injure him, and I sure as hell don't want to kill him. I also shows me how precious life can be and makes me rethink the level of contact/intesity I train at.

    Now I'm not for closing down Toughman competitions altogether, but I do think that all the competitiors should be informed about the deaths in the sport and the REAL risks involved. If this lady knew of the other deaths in the same ring, maybe she would have competed, maybe she wouldn't, but at least she could have made an informed choice.





    <marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>
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