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  1. Dibble is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2003 11:28am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was first told it was Korean sword, but when I looked it up it seemed as if kumdo was kendo, and the terms were merely different spellings/interchangable.

    Anyone here know?
  2. Vapour is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2003 12:27pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/6963/english.html

    The fact is that Korean did not have strong martial culture like Japan where military class ruled the country nearly 800 years or China where banditry and warlordism were common and unique martial arts institution, Shaolin temple preserved and research the arts for centuries.

    There is no shame in this. Korea surpased Japan in other aspects such as painting and ceramic. And I suspect that they were superior in study of Classics. Korean were more advance than Japan in term of civilization in ancient period and that is a fact.

    On the other hand, Japan did overtake Korea somewhere in 18th century. After all, Japan is the only non-Western country to join imperialist conquest. There is no secret that Korean looked, studied and copied many things from Japan for it's development model after their liberation. And Japan did exactly the same with the West. Also brutal experience of Japanese occapation and Korean War caused Korean to reshaped their identity in more militaristic manner just as Jew did in Israel after the Holocaust.

    Now, when someone tried to reclaim it's martial tradition by studying the arts from someone else who is the exact group to have brutalised you, you are going to get very complex view on how they see such martial tradition.



    Edited by - Vapour on June 17 2003 12:29:41
  3. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2003 12:27pm

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     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are 2 types of Kumdo, Dae Han Kumdo, which is similar to Japanese Kendo, and Haidong Kumdo, which is more Korean based sword play (but more Chinese in flavor). I have a small report on Dae Han Kumdo in the Martial Art History forum.

    Jeremy M. Talbott
    http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
    http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  4. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2003 1:20pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

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    Dibble,
    Same Chinese characters, the difference is the pronunciation of those by the respective languages. Whther they are pedagogically the same, I don't know.

    Vapour,
    Goddamn excellent freaking post.

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. Jenfucius is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2003 8:08pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I studied kendo for two years. I then moved, and studied kumdo for about one year. As the wastrel mentioned, they have the same chinese characters "sword way". the equipment and the rules are the same. the terminology is korean instead of japanese. there are some forms that belong to kumdo that are not found in kendo, but the standard kendo forms are found as well. the one rule difference is that kumdoists do not do the squatting down bow (sonkyo?) that kendoists do before a bout. there are also some stylistic differences, such as kumdo emphasizing smaller, faster strikes (less aesthetic but better for scoring points-the japanese use them in competitions but do so reluctantly while koreans seem to embrace them), more movement, more aggressive attacks, less waiting around looking for an opening and more hitting and trying to create opportunities. but mostly it's the same deal. kumdoists show up at the kendo world championships. some people said that in the finals a year or two ago the korean champion scored several clean hits on the japanese champion, but the judging was biased and he lost unfairly, which wouldn't surprise me one bit.

    kumdo in korea is largely governed by the all korea kumdo federation, which is affliated with the international kendo federation, which governs most kendo/kumdo worldwide. however, there are some splinter groups. i don't know anything about "haidong kumdo", but i think it's a whole other thing.
  6. Vapour is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 2:16am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm, I just read the whole site. The link is rather anti-Korean. Probably, it wasn't so appropriate link even though the information provided in English are accurate.
  7. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2003 9:14am

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     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/Kumdo.html

    Try this one

    Jeremy M. Talbott
    http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
    http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  8. Dibble is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2003 12:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey thanks for all the info! Just researching arts that play with longer knives. Found a guy around here doing Spanish blade, so I think I'll try him first.
  9. Vapour is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2003 6:21pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do have to call BS a BS sometimes.

    As far as Kumdo is concerned, it is kendo. Some who sought Korean identity adopted techniques in Mu Yea Do Bo Tong Ji which is based on Chinse sword play. But once it's become sports, it's become kendo no matter what because kata become largely irrelevant.

    Now, those kumbo developed in direction of kenjutu is another matter. It's not kendo but it certainly has origin in Japanese swordmanship. Only question is whether those who differentiate kumbo from Japanese kenjutu do so for the purpose of functionality or for the purpose of national identity.

    Another aspect of important Korean history is that for centuries it was protectorate of China and culture was heavily influence by China. Once Manchurian invaded China, it was in Korea where many aspect of Chinese cultuer was preserved. The official letter of feudal government was Chinese for centuries. The current south Korean government has been trying to reduce/purge Chinese character from Korean. I personally do not think it's a good thing at all but that is another matter.

    Chinese influence in Korea is as much contentious issue as Japanese one. That is one reason the period between ancient time and modern time are not taugth in details in the textbook. Just before Japanese annexation, ruling class was devided among pro-Japanese, pro-Chinese, pro-Russian groups who believed that the best course for Korea was to become a protectorate of a foreign power. In the end, Japan after defeating China and Russia in war, annex Korea with full corparation of ruling class. Those who seek independent Korea start resistance but many had to go into exile.

    Once Korea gain independence, the nationalist are then split into Pro Soviet, Pro Chinese and Pro American and the Korean war and devided Korea was the result.



    Edited by - Vapour on June 19 2003 18:25:16
  10. Fighty McGee is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2003 7:22pm


     

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    I appreciate your insights in to modern Korean history, Vapour. Keep 'em coming. :)
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