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  1. kusa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 1:21pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, so most popular criticisms of tma are

    1) lack of conditioning

    2) lack of sparring

    3) often designed around culteraly different/outdated forms of attack

    4) limited in outlook

    so if as a tma you wanna be real these concerns must be addressed,

    1) do body conditioning, iron body or otherwise, get someone to put some 16oz gloves on and smack you around the body, then progress onto smaller gloves, open hand/fists, go slow and be carefull, then get used to be punched in the head, (still workin on both of these)

    2) spar usin the techniques of your art plus commen western techniques
    use a defensive side and aggressive side then swap, keep it real and use varin rules like, defender has to get to one side of dojo to be safe, or only strikes to body, or just standing grapplin (gi and no gi) then do some situational work etc.

    EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW BASIC BOXIN AND TACKLES - thats what reality is espec in england boxin, judo and rugby (the manly version of usa football)are very big, thats what comin at you so you should know it, as well as basic edged weapons defensive, i.e premptive strikes plus basic arm control and nike fu.

    3) train the trad patterens and see how the principles apply to comen attacks now, eg. lots of wrist releses etc work well if you arm has been grabed attemtin to prempt someone, plus do a little reserch, violence is often a very culteral dependent thing, people in england start fights differently then usa or russia, read geof thompsons dead or alive for good general advice.

    4)its no use knowin the samurai/shaolin way etc if you dont have the mind set, martial virtue is not hurtin even tho you can, not pretending you can then gettin your head stompt in.

    peace
  2. Boyd is offline
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    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 1:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you mean "unable to fight", or "refuse to fight"?

    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  3. kusa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 2:15pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    like judo, or kyushinkai or all the trad arts in the early ufc or sambo, or real thai most of the time the thais come over to uk/usa they kick major ass espec the fighters who think thai is the same as kickboxin just with low kicks,
  4. kusa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 2:32pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    really most judo and sambo guys before they do ufc do cross train as do the rest of them, i only use ufc becaus thats what most of the people here seem to base there trainin on, my post was more geared to real life confrontations etc which whilst are similar in many ways also have many differences in mindset etc, i only ment the post to educate what the real tma people are donin, those who aint 'hobby martial artists' i think one of the prob is in usa there is a derth of talented and well instruced tma instructors, hence the vast amounts of colourfull suit wearin clowns who use the answer 'becaus its traditional' becaus they dont know....
  5. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 4:19pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    good post Kusa.......YOU NOOB!!! lol j/k


    Osiris- www.dictionary.com

    --
    Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
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  6. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 4:43pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "My onle critocism is that tmas say they can fight, but never do."
    well this was kinda hard to read, but funny nevertheless

    --
    Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
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  7. Phoenix is offline
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    Stand and Deliver!

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 4:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, so most popular criticisms of tma are

    1) lack of conditioning

    2) lack of sparring

    3) often designed around culteraly different/outdated forms of attack

    4) limited in outlook

    so if as a tma you wanna be real these concerns must be addressed,

    1) do body conditioning, iron body or otherwise, get someone to put some 16oz gloves on and smack you around the body, then progress onto smaller gloves, open hand/fists, go slow and be carefull, then get used to be punched in the head, (still workin on both of these)

    2) spar usin the techniques of your art plus commen western techniques
    use a defensive side and aggressive side then swap, keep it real and use varin rules like, defender has to get to one side of dojo to be safe, or only strikes to body, or just standing grapplin (gi and no gi) then do some situational work etc.

    EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW BASIC BOXIN AND TACKLES - thats what reality is espec in england boxin, judo and rugby (the manly version of usa football)are very big, thats what comin at you so you should know it, as well as basic edged weapons defensive, i.e premptive strikes plus basic arm control and nike fu.

    3) train the trad patterens and see how the principles apply to comen attacks now, eg. lots of wrist releses etc work well if you arm has been grabed attemtin to prempt someone, plus do a little reserch, violence is often a very culteral dependent thing, people in england start fights differently then usa or russia, read geof thompsons dead or alive for good general advice.

    4)its no use knowin the samurai/shaolin way etc if you dont have the mind set, martial virtue is not hurtin even tho you can, not pretending you can then gettin your head stompt in.

    peace

    Collect the parts where i win,
    Against the grain, Against the odds,
    Ill rise and i wont trip again,
    Very astute, Kusa...

    This is probably the most insightful criticism/suggestion for improvement on TMA that I have heard on this forum, in the short time I've been here.'

    I'm impressed.

    Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated. - Geroge Bernard Shaw
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  8. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 5:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All that is fine and good, but TMA's or whatever don't really need to do any of those things to solve their problems. All they really need to do is be honest to theselves and others about what they really are about and what they provide.

    Osiris is right. Almost all TMA's are insufficent/ineffective as fighting systems, yet they continuely misrepresent themselves. Whether this is out of arrogance, ignorance, or outright fraud it is still wrong and IMO unnecessary.

    My school, which I consider tradtional, is honest with itself and it's students about what they are really learning. While I consider the fighting elements of what we do better than almost any other TMA I've seen, we do not claim to provide the end all, be all of combat. We tell people that if they are looking for the best way to fight or defend themselves they need to go elsewhere, we tell our students that if they ever have to defend themselves to NOT use martial arts, since most martial arts training of today LESSENS your ability to fight.

    If TMA's are going contiue to mispresent themselves as effective forms of combat, they do need to do all thosw things Kusa said. But they could also just be honest with themselves and keep on doing what they are doing.

    <marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>
  9. kusa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 5:38pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    id rather be able to throw down when nessasary! (grabs crotch) stufolld!

    im lucky i hav a great dojo very traditional in the effective sense plus we do a lot of modern tony bleur stuff, most of the guys are ex - kickboxers and a few thai guys, the mind set and pushin your self is the key!

    'its are struggles that define us, and the hardships we endure' - hate breed (perserverence)
  10. Halogen is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/16/2003 10:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was thinking about a similar topic the other day (my Sifu had been talking about entering the local Muay Thai circuit, since that was the only venue available for our school to fight in, other that light contact stuff). I haven't really collated it in a way that it warrants its own thread so here it is...

    The main problem I see with the so called 'traditional' (meant as the non-sportive arts) martial arts as opposed to arts like BJJ, Muay Thai, Kyokushin, Judo, even Tai Kwon Do, is a lack of a standardised rules system to which the schools must live up to. Many traditional organisations are concerned with keeping the forms correct, but care little about how sparring and fighting is handled within the schools.

    For example, if a school teaches Judo or BJJ, you know what you're getting because of the controlling organisations in Judo and BJJ. However, look at Kung Fu schools (and some karate schools) and you'll find a range of different styles of teaching, from places that train hard to places that do nothing but forms and light contact point sparring (ala sport TKD).

    Without a controlling body, standards are maintained only by those in direct control of their school and are not enforced by any outside entity when/if they fall.

    I may have overstated the authority of the overarching bodies in the sportive martial arts, however it is clear that they have much more of an influence in the way each school is run, over the bodies present in traditional martial arts.
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