Revisionist Okinawan Karate History

**Choke** · Posted On: 6/14/2003 4:26am

If Karate was only practiced by nobles then why do many Karate weapons resemble farming tools? I for one am very confused at the idea of a noble using a rice flail or a harpoon head as a weapon.

_______________________________________
Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!

**Mr. Nice Guy** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 8:01pm

Strictly speaking, Karate doesn't include weapons training. That is (or was) known as Kobudo.
The word Karate is a Japanese pronunciation of two Chinese characters which say "Kung Shou" or "Empty Hand" which denote training in sparring; strikes, punches, kicks, etc. Weapons training is seen as separate. Lots of Karate aficionados do train Kobudo as well, which is where it can get confusing for an outsider.

Grim, hard, cold words, heartless and miserable. The night was railing against the morning of which it was bereaved, and the cold was cursing the warmth for which it hungered.

Edited by - Mr. Nice Guy on June 15 2003 20:04:45

**Phoenix** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 8:12pm

Karate practiced only by nobles?? Since when?

I always thought that Ju Jutsu was the art that was practiced by the nobility and the samurai.

It was always my understanding that Karate was developed by the Okinawan farmers as a means of defense from the invading Japanese. They implemented farming tools because the Japanese had outlawed the posession of edged and bladed weapons.

But then, I could be wrong.

Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated. - Geroge Bernard Shaw

**Sensei Mak** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 9:31pm

It STARTED being based down by the nobles...but then filtered down..keep in mind the chinese "professors" who were giving the okinawans an education were also teaching them how to fight. The poor were not the ones recieving these tutors at first.

**Sensei Mak** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 9:32pm

passed down*

**Sensei Mak** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 9:33pm

Something that has also diminished its effectiveness is this.

Think about how these people lived, they were not overweight, lazy, out of shape people. They were farmers with hard hands and a tolerance for pain and hard work. The kata they practiced was a primary thing due to the fact that their strength was not deficient and their hands were not soft.

**Sensei Mak** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 9:33pm

Which is why we have to supplement our training with weights and such

**Punisher** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 11:46pm

"I for one am very confused at the idea of a noble using a rice flail or a harpoon head as a weapon."

The nobles didn't and neither did the peasents. We've talked about it before, a rice flail sucks as a weapon and takes a lot of skill to use effectively. A simple club, on the other hand almost anyone can use. But the facts are there is not any documented evdience that the Okinawans ever picked up the sickles and flails in anger and fought against Samurai with them. The incorporation of farm tools into their martial arts most likely is a tribute to their agricultural roots and is more about self expression than actual combat.

"Think about how these people lived, they were not overweight, lazy, out of shape people. They were farmers with hard hands and a tolerance for pain and hard work. The kata they practiced was a primary thing due to the fact that their strength was not deficient and their hands were not soft."

Yes, think about how they lived. They were under s strict fuedal system. They were basically slaves. When did they have time to practice all these kata? Daylight hours were most likely spent working in the field. And if they did their training at night say by lamp or fire light, how did they keep it secret from their oppressors?

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**Sensei Mak** · Posted On: 6/15/2003 11:49pm

how were they slaves

**Punisher** · Posted On: 6/16/2003 1:06am

Well, they existed under the fuedal system. They were forced to work on someone elses land for the food they were given to eat. They basically didn't have anything that the Japanese or their own nobles couldn't take away at a whim. And the fact that the nobles probably consider the peasents their property, makes them pretty much slaves.

<marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>