6/05/2003 6:35pm, #81
Hey McGee, which art leads to the orgy, I want to start taking that up.
Jeremy M. Talbott
6/05/2003 7:30pm, #82
Back to work:
Here's my proposal KC if you can get some sort of thread set up we can mail in bits and snippets of history that are relevant to a certain number of questions. Then other members can critique the submission and if a majority and the moderator agree it is good history it goes in. We then have a icon on the main board for martial arts myths that the newbee can pull down.
For example I have Mark Bishop's book "Okinawan Karate: Teachers, style and secret techniques" On the surface it seems to be a very reliable book that provides names and dates to prove the following politically incorrect thesis.
Okinawan Karate was heavily influenced by Chinese fighting arts through the 19th century. Some Okinawans liked to claim that their Karate was essentially developed in house from the 17th century onward as a way of promoting the uniqueness of their art. (and because by 1900 the mainland Japanese looked down on China which was in disarray)
The other version is that there were plenty of people like the founder of Uechi-ryu who studied martial arts in the Fuchou providence of China before coming back to the Okinawa. This would be one of an answers to a series of questions that could be similarly answered.
6/05/2003 7:33pm, #83
Oops, "This would be one answer to one of many questions." I lost control of my grammar for a moment.
6/06/2003 1:55am, #84
If we get enough interest in this thread, we'll have to start an offical thread on a particular art. I'm guessing we'd start with TKD.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
This is how I see it happening; a several step process:
1. The discussion would begin, and information gathered. Sources would be listed with each bit of info.
2. The info would be reviewed by everyone for accuracy, and the discussion would turn toward coming to a consensus on what is agreed as fact.
3. A draft, including only the agreed on facts would be produced.
4. The draft would be reviewed, again by members of the website, and when a general consensus is arrived at, the final article would be posted in a section of the website devoted to MA style histories.
Perhaps work on 2 or 3 arts at a time, in groups. Each person in a group sharing information with the others; then the groups sharing with the whole site.
Since everyone lives in different areas/countries, we can take advantage of information that one person can get but not another.
6/06/2003 2:49am, #85
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
- South Florida
A lot of the origins of many of the martial arts are just lore and have no substantial evidence to verify the facts surrounding that paticular MA's conception. I think histories and facts should be limited to the modern era. Even then there are still hype and ebellishments surrounding the art especially around some of the masters. In the system I train, Goju Ryu Karate, one of the grandmasters of the system, Gogen Yamaguchi, allegedly killed a tiger with his bare hands in a Manchurian prison in WW2 working as a spy for the Japanese. While I like to believe in this I couldn't pass this off as fact to everyone.
Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."
-- George Bernard Shaw
6/06/2003 1:14pm, #86
You are correct that history and origin aside, fighting systems are useful on their own merits. However when picking an art most people do not sit down and do an extensive survey of their options, usually because they do not know how. Some would call these people "stupid" but I think that everyone at the start of their martial arts career is generally ill informed.
In place of exhaustively reviewing a martial art people make their decisions about this art based on certain claimed historical information. Such as "this system is or was used by the Seals" or this system was developed at the Shaolin temple. Therefore such information becomes relevant for people to make good decisions.
For example if I wanted to decide between buying Lew Hick's and Jerry Peterson's tapes it would be helpful to know that Hicks formally worked or instructed in Peterson's system. This is modern "History" but still quite important.
Likewise knowing how the black belt system was enacted will not automatically make someone a better fighter but knowing this history will allow someone to make better choices that may improve their abilities. For example they may decide that black belt rank is not the be all, and end all, and study some grappling instead of trying to learn every kata in existance. (exaggeration intended).
6/06/2003 1:23pm, #87KC ElbowsGuest
Hello, Phrost, anyone home? Big project, remember?
There must be an underutilized forum for these threads. Again, each art gets a thread, we make as many of the threads as possible right away, even if they lack posts, so that people can contribute as they think of things. No "mixed thread", that's just a nightmare, each art needs its own thread.
Phrost is MIA. I think he's been drinking again. You know how he gets.
6/06/2003 1:25pm, #88
Also, is it possible to give someone the power to delete out troll threading?
Jeremy M. Talbott
6/06/2003 1:34pm, #89
Just to follow up on something Jeremy said and Kung Fools disagreed with.
Jeremy stated the Seals no longer officially use Scars (some individual Seals however, may still study this system) and Kung Fools said "prove it". If one goes to the article "Martial Arts and Real Fighting: A Personal Perspective" by Major John Lance USAF which was added to this board on 12-3-2002 Lance mentions how he trained with a platoon of Seals in October 2002 and they told him that Scars had been discontinued as a training method. I believe that Lance posts on this board as Vargas so if you disagree with this Kung Fools you can certainly ask him some questions.
6/06/2003 1:40pm, #90KC ElbowsGuest
And Miguk makes his bid for power.
[watches Miguk suspiciously]