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  1. Matt Bernius is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2006 4:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Accounts of Bruce Lee and Wong Jak Man fight -- please read first post

    Ok, I've started to do some research into this match and things boil down to three accounts:

    1965, the Oakland Chinatown community send out a decree that Lee can no longer teach westerners. Wong is elected to be the communities representative. If Wong wins a gong sau, then Lee can no longer teach westerners.

    Jack Man Wong does not belie[ve] Bruce would actually fight, and tries to delay the match. Bruce becomes angered and insists that they not wait. Wong then tries to put limitations on techniques. Bruce refuses "rules"and the two go no holds barred. Bruce begins to pound his opponent in only a couple of seconds. As Bruce is winning, Wong attemps to flee, but is caught by Bruce. Bruce begins to beat him on the ground. Students of the other teacher attempted to step in and help their teacher, James Lee, Bruce's good friend prevent this. Later he is bothered on why the fight took so long and begins to re-evaluate his style.
    Various versions of this story have Lee winning within a minute. Others have the fight lasting upwards of five to ten (the reason for the reevaluation).

    The second version of the story has the fight ending in a draw. This one is less publicized. A full account of it can be found here (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/99vs66/1980.html). The gyst - Lee extended the challenge to Wong. The fight lasted 20 minutes. Wong had the upper hand at numerous times but couldn't seal the deal. Wong claims that it was because Lee wouldn't admit defeat and Wong didn't want to have to escalate it to a level where he'd really have to hurt Lee.

    So here's the question - what evidence (beyond anecdote) is there to support either of these positions? For example, some folks have stated that the "stop teaching westerners" thing doesn't ring true because Wong himself would teach anyone willing to pay. But is there existing evidence of Wong teaching outside the community in this time frame?

    Just wondering if any folks here had any connections that were worth discussing.

    - Matt
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
  2. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2006 4:28pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I live in Oakland, near some students of WJM. Its a Northern Shao Lin School that meets in a church gym.

    http://www.kungfu.net/

    Here is what they have to say about it - from their website, a 1980 article:

    http://www.kungfu.net/brucelee.html

    From the article:
    "Only after that battle, says Wong, did he develop tremendous chi powers from the practice of Tai Chi, Hsing I, and Pakua. "

    If thats any indicator.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  3. Matt Bernius is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2006 4:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the same article that I had found.

    As far as the comment about the development of Chi Powers -- I take that with a grain of salt.

    - Matt
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
  4. kungfujew is offline
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    Sexe dans la derrière!

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2006 4:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai Khmer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    I live in Oakland, near some students of WJM. Its a Northern Shao Lin School that meets in a church gym.

    http://www.kungfu.net/

    Here is what they have to say about it - from their website, a 1980 article:

    http://www.kungfu.net/brucelee.html

    From the article:
    "Only after that battle, says Wong, did he develop tremendous chi powers from the practice of Tai Chi, Hsing I, and Pakua. "

    If thats any indicator.
    Funny how they mention Bruce Lee and "chi powers" in the same sentence without also noting that Bruce Lee dismissed such things as "hocus pocus and Chinese fairy tales", if I'm not mistaken.
  5. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2006 5:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah. Bruce Lee sucks.
  6. chaosexmachina is offline
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    Unexpected Elbow

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2006 9:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by odacon
    Yeah. Bruce Lee sucks.
    Zombie Bruce Lee will kick your ass.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  7. wackamole is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2006 1:49pm


     Style: etc

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Oakland Gym

    The gym in Oakland is definitely not Bullshido. They field a pretty serious sanshou team.
  8. jubei33 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2006 11:01pm


     Style: Boxing, Solar Ray Attack

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wackamole
    The gym in Oakland is definitely not Bullshido. They field a pretty serious sanshou team.
    maybe so, but thier recap of events may not be entirely legit. IE: fielding sanshou teams does not lend credence to bullshit magical theories or poison touch mumbo-jumbo.
    http://woodwardswhiskey.wordpress.com/

    He was punching him like the collective karmic debt he'd accrued was coming to collections, mostly on his face.
  9. jubei33 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2006 11:34pm


     Style: Boxing, Solar Ray Attack

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It cannot be proven, of course, that Lee’s fatal edema of the brain was caused by Jeet Kune Do, just as it could not be proven his death was brought on by any of the other rumored causes ranging from illicit drugs to excessive sex to blows on the head. Wong thinks, to serve as a caution to those who believe they can, by themselves, develop the knowledge it has taken others many generations of cumulative effort to acquire.
    yes, but we'll go ahead and make that claim anyway, and while we're at it, make all manner of spurious suppositions to bolster our argument.

    How can this article be taken seriously?
    http://woodwardswhiskey.wordpress.com/

    He was punching him like the collective karmic debt he'd accrued was coming to collections, mostly on his face.
  10. Emerald Torch is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2006 11:48pm


     Style: Hapkido/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ive always been a bit skeptical about Lee. Sure, he knew martial arts, but his primary role was that of an actor, not a fighter. His life is mixed with so much bullshit its hard to know what to believe.
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