Shou Shu

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 7/08/2007 9:47pm

My opinion is that Shou Shu is in many ways bullshido, and that this poster has good research. But alas the communication is a bit poor.

There are quite a few threads on Shou Shu.

**TKD Black Belt** · Posted On: 7/09/2007 7:14pm

Originally Posted by Kickcatcher

My opinion is that Shou Shu is in many ways bullshido, and that this poster has good research. But alas the communication is a bit poor.

There are quite a few threads on Shou Shu.

I'd like to agree but apparently this guy enjoys talking in circles.....

TKD

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 7/09/2007 8:15pm

Originally Posted by Kickcatcher

My opinion is that Shou Shu is in many ways bullshido, and that this poster has good research. But alas the communication is a bit poor.

There are quite a few threads on Shou Shu.

Yeah, I just took a look at another one of the... four? And all are pretty much the same. Intense research presented in a way that makes my non-English speaking dislexic uncle seem like Robert Frost.

This guy looks like he doesn't even read responses. He just sees someone posted something with a question mark and posts another colorful or en-boldened filled quote. I can appreciate finding what seems to definitely be Bullshido and putting time in the research, but presenting the package is half the battle as well.

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 7/09/2007 10:04pm

Summary:

Shou Shu is a brand of Kempo derived, as the above poster suggests, from Tracy Kempo. But as if mullets are not bad enough, the guy behind Shou Shu, "Da'sifu" was an egomaniac and probably compulsive liar. And took silly looks to a whole new level. The originally called "Moore's karate" has become "Shou Shu". He made up a completely non-credible story that made him out to be some sort of Triad gangster and "real" fighter in China etc. He told stories about multiple attackers etc that although cannot be proven either way, are extremely far fetched.

Da Shifu Al Moore (deceased)

Somewhere along the line the myth grew up within Shou Shu that it is the best martial art etc. I mean, along with sy Wing Chun, the Shou Shu community is really high on the superiority complex rankings. There seems to be the genuine belief that a Shou Shu practitioner is superior to black belts in other arts and can fight multiple opponents with relative ease.

Add to that comical obsession with interpreting animals, like using which animal forms some sifu knows as a pissing contest between split lineages "your sifu doesn't even know Mongoose style so there!!!!", it all makes for an extremely silly art.

Then add the incredibly insular culture of the art - these guys really rise to the bait if you try to discuss the silliness of their art. Some might even describe it as "cult-like". I was banned from their forum just for asking some straightforward questions. I've witnessed their zealotry on MAP, Tung Fu and Bullshido, so I've seen a lot of the crap they talk.

Da Shifu Al Moore action figure:

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 7/09/2007 10:22pm

Thank you. :notworthy

**Truth seeker** · Posted On: 7/10/2007 11:50am

Thanks Kickcatcher! Moore's silly Look! (2001)

Moore Brothers Tracy Black Belts.
Richard Lee Black Belts 1960's

About Us - Hall of Fame - 1960s

Richard Lee Black Belts 1960's

Pat Douglas
Glen Hasstedt
Al Moore
Ralph Moore
Al Moore Jr under Richard Lee, Question ?, why not under his father and uncle?

Richard Lee Black Belts 1970's

Bill Kelly
Ron Lee
John Simmons * *
Rich Brown *
Rich Buford
Terry Kane *
Gerry Kawaguchi *
Mark Miller *
Herb Cody *
Mike Adair * w
Mark Vanderpool *
John Coen *
Steve Gaudenzi *
Tony Ito *
Robert Ito
Jim Kane
Tyler Hanamura
Johnny Hein
Al Moore Jr.
Tom Amaral

About Us - Hall of Fame - 1970s

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 7/10/2007 5:44pm

Image rehosted on to independant server to reduce risk of withdrawl

**Guizzy** · Posted On: 7/10/2007 6:28pm

Originally Posted by SUSHI SASHIMI

Ladies and Gentlemen we're being trolled. Trust me on this. I know trolling when I see it.

Nah, he's not trolling.

Somehow on MAP we managed to have some kind of understanding with him, he's just not very good at presenting points (but he's scary good at digging stuff up).

As people mentionned, he's proving with an overwhelming amount of evidence (but no clean presentation) that Shou Shu is shitty repackaged ke?po. Hardly news, but...

Honestly, I think Shou Shu thing is already done; no supplemental amount of proof is going to convert anyone, Truthseeker.

However, there are tons of other frauds the Bullshido community could have you dig info on.

**Truth seeker** · Posted On: 7/16/2007 11:24am

Al and Ralph Moore First degree black belts in the Tracy/Parker system under Richard Lee, Al Moore Jr in Richard Lee Bok Fu system. Together they made up the Shou Shu system.

Grandmaster Richard Lee
During my Gold Ring acceptance speech I made it clear that it was always out of respect and pride from my Chinese Kenpo roots that the Tracy/Parker system was the base of what I used in taking on the world in not only the 1st ever World Kuoshu (Kung-Fu) tournament but in all other World Tournaments and major International events.

Al Moore's Shou Shu History

Use yahoo search for Al Moore's Shou Shu History

The Truth OF The Story Is

seeing as how the point's been made, but...

I believe what the members of this 'style' do, much like those in Shaolin Do, Temple Kung Fu, and other bullsh!t schools do is what's referred to as an 'Ad Hoc Rescue' :

Psychologically, it is understandable that you would try to rescue a cherished belief from trouble. When faced with conflicting information, you are likely to mention how the conflict will disappear if some new assumption is taken into account. However, if there is no good reason to accept this saving assumption other than that it works to save your cherished belief, your rescue is an ad hoc rescue.
Example:

Yolanda: If you take four of these tablets of vitamin C every day, you will never get a cold.
Juanita: I tried that last year for several months, and still got a cold.
Yolanda: Did you take the tablets every day?
Juanita: Yes.
Yolanda: Well, I'll bet you bought some bad tablets.

The burden of proof is definitely on Yolanda's shoulders to prove that Juanita's vitamin C tablets were probably "bad" -- that is, not really vitamin C. If Yolanda can't do so, her attempt to rescue her hypothesis (that vitamin C prevents colds) is simply a dogmatic refusal to face up to the possibility of being wrong.

kinda like what these Shou Shu cats are doing....good night

**shoushutiger** · Posted On: 8/07/2007 7:35pm

I understand everything you have posted. Shou shu=tracy and american kenpo. the grandmaster of MY school though, went to china himself (has proof) and studied there(sorry thats beside the point) But then even when I acknowledge this, I am still puzzled. We have people that trained in kenpo previously and the study shou shu and tell me that the find it far different. I mean wasn't the claim that Da shifu adopted kenpo to take its techniques and apply the chinese principles to them? Wasn't that what he said in that interview, or whatever? I know people that practice kenpo outside of shou shu, and we have some of the same techniques. But we do them far differently. Thoughts?