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  1. shoushutiger is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 6:23pm


     Style: Hei Long Shou Shu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    shou shu only means surgery when the charachters is 手术. shou shu means beast art when the charachters are 兽術. And that is what the charachters are in the shou shu community. Shoushu only means surgery when put together ie: "shoushu" when there is a space, it means beast art ie: "shou shu"
  2. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 7:48pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Wrong!

    Together (Shoushu) has no results!
    Dictionary Search Results

    Trad.Simp.PinyinEnglish手術手术shǒu shù surgical operation; operation; surgery;

    Shou alone!

    獸 兽 shòu beast; quadruped;

    Shu alone!

    shù method; technique


    藝術 艺术 shù art;

    as in art work,

    The word you are looking for would be.

    skill; art;

    So the correct term for Beast art would be. ( Shou Yi ) But again together has no meaning.


    I lost count on the different definition Shou Shu has had over the years, but the latest is Beast Knowledge, so you better change it to Beast method or technique, but it still means Surgical operation!

    Thank you so much for your post and web blog on the origins of Shou Shu. Years ago, I studied directly under Ralph Moore along with his son Rusty and daughter Kelly, and with Rusty received my black belt. Many times, I had discussed the issue of the origins of Shou Shu with Mr. Moore who had said that he originally studied Kenpo and showed great respect for Ed Parker. He said that his brother Al had gone to China to study 'Shou Shu,' to the northern city of Tian Jin.

    Years later, I too travelled to Tian Jin, but not to study martial arts, but Mandarin Chinese, as well as to teach English at a university. During that time, I attempted to learn more about the origins of Shou Shu. I would discuss certain words with people, whether they were 'Shou shu' or 'dashifu'. Each answer, however, raised doubts about 'Moore's Karate'. No one had ever heard of 'Shou Shu' and as for the word 'dashifu' it appeared to be a miss application of 'shifu' or teacher/ master; the Chinese character 'da' means big, large, or great, while ‘shifu’ means teacher/ master. There was no specific word for master that separated a person from the common role of teacher. The word ‘shifu’ also should be delineated from ‘laoshi’ a title or honorific for a school or university teacher, while ‘shifu’ refers to someone applying a trade or skill, as in the English word ‘journeyman’.



    Karate Korner Message Board - Shou Shu

    I have talked with people that speak Mandarin, who gave the same example.

    Check China profiles for people that speak English, research yourself.

    Check other words from the Shou Shu list, Da Shifu and others. Here is a link !

    Chinese-English Dictionary
    Last edited by Truth seeker; 1/27/2007 12:07pm at .
  3. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 9:55pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    A PM

    I personally agree with everything you have said,being a student of tracys at the same school moore was, the truth is he couldnt wait to get a black belt and get out of there,he used to get his ass handed to him every thursday night by all the jar heads,so what did he do,he got a bunch of big dumb guys to stand around him, and started his own dojo,and thats the truth! salute
    Al moore was a student of Al ,Paul,and pat, but blackmoore was the instuctor



    I should have listed this link to the interview with Mr. Moore, claims in his own words. The number of counterdictions in the six page interview are quite remarkable.

    Read an interview with Da Shifu here.


    http://homepage.mac.com/tony_baltera/shou_shu/Interview.pdf

    Are You In A Martial Art Cult?

    Zanshin 8: Are You in A Martial Arts Cult?

    Shou Shu Green Belt!


    Here's a little info. Though I am only on need to know basis, I heard Mr. Moore went to China to train when he was already a Black Belt! What style, I dont know! If any of you have trained in Martial Arts and have reached any higher belt, you know training comes easier once the nervous system has been reprogrammed! Meaning your style becomes a reaction! He never studied under Parker or those guys! They trained together and shared philosophies about, for the most part, ways of running schools! This comes from my Shun ShiFu! In which he is only on need to know basis as well! So as you can see for someone to learn this history, one needs to have Seven Circles I would imagine!

    I figure none of you, nor myself, will know how exactly Shou' Sho' came about. The Master has moved on and those secrets are with him, or now with Da Shifu Ralph Moore and/or Da Shifu Moore Jr.!

    Shou' Sho' is a way of life! With or without everyone knowing its secrets!

    Found a book on Shou Shu Definitions.



    Brian's Kenpo Page - Terminology

    Last edited by Truth seeker; 2/26/2007 4:12pm at .
  4. shoushutiger is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 11:13pm


     Style: Hei Long Shou Shu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, I want to close this arguement and fucking seal it away forever. The history of shoushu is confusing, is considered different by different people, and most shoushu people acknowledge this. (regardless of the hard headed ones you may have spoken to) What we do know is this: Shou shu and kenpo have a strong connection. The two styles even share various techniques. Its cloudy history does not ruin its use as a fighting system however, Shoushu is applicable in the same ways as Kenpo. If you are a MMA nutrider, and you still feel that application is unacceptable, then fine, there is nothing I can do about that.

    Shoushu practitioners either do not know, or do not care about the history. we start caring less about the history the more we SHUT UP AND TRAIN. And those that do not know of the history, must not be accounted for, it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to get the historical information, if they even want to, even if this is just asking an instructor. Now I am not sure of all the claims that have been made, my grandmaster has split off the Moore's francise, but the ones I have seen on this site I have never heard of AT THE SCHOOL, only here, on the internet. Where did these claims come from? I dont know. I also do not care. These claims, if they were even made, would not affect the ability of the system. And please, lets not debate of whether they were stated or not, because NOBODY CARES.

    If you have had experience with the shoushu style, and you didnt like it, for whatever reason; then leave. If you do like it, you shouldn't leave because people attack its history, you should like it as a MARTIAL ART not as some historical standard that can be traced back to that bohidahrma guy, or whatever. If you are going to take a martial art for the credability of its roots, all I have to say is WTF!

    If a shoushu practitioner is okay with all of this, and appreciates shoushu, again, as a martial art, then you shouldn't call him a liar, because he is not! He enjoys practicing a martial art! You are a liar because your practice a martial art with cloudy lineage? Again, WTF!

    I think, there is more to a martial art then its historical records. I still think the whole, learning how to better yourself, get in shape, gain confidence, and learning self defense IS what should be important as a martial art, and you cannot believe all this goes away because of the shoushu lineage, and if you do, you obviously have not tried shoushu.

    -A proud shoushu practitioner
    Last edited by shoushutiger; 4/14/2007 11:16pm at .
  5. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 10:25am


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hard Headed!

    Hard headed fit the Shou Shu practitioners to the T, The history of Shou Shu is Chinese Kenpo / American Kenpo and a few short periods of time that Mr Moore was with other systems. You lineage is Chow/Ed Parker/Al Tracy/Bob Blackmoore/Richard Lee/Steve Labounty! Get over it.

    Shou Shu is a great system, It"s Kenpo, Again read a book! And I agreed if you just trained that would be great. But the history is not cloudy, just all the claims that are made by the shou shu instructors are. Your debate is not with me it is with Al Tracy, Richard Lee, Steve Labounty, Mr Hawkins and Ted Summners. And the matching techniques and forms of the systems that they teach, I just did the research!!!!!

    Train Safe,
  6. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2007 3:49pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shou Shu, Al Moore Listed on Richard Lee's Family Tree!

    About Us - Hall of Fame - 1960s



    Richard Lee Black Belts 1960's

    Pat Douglas
    Glen Hasstedt
    Al Moore
    Ralph Moore


    Good Day!
  7. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2007 5:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting, but please explain to the more casual and less Shou-Shu aware orumites why that info undermines the Shou Shu myth.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  8. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2007 6:24pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Moore's Claims

    Mr. Moore claims to have learned Shou Shu in China in th late 40's and early 50's. from Chinese masters in seven different styles, in a 2 and a half year period. and was a member of the Chinese mafia Eetc,etc.


    About Sheng Chi Kung Fu | Sheng Chi Kung Fu



    Look up, Sheng Chi kung Fu and read yourself.


    And you can read the interview with Al Moore at the Moore's Monterey Shou Shu web page, link to interview at bottom of the web page,

    Al Moore and family should win the Bullshido award for holding the story together for over forty years.

    http://www.moores-monterey.com/


    Al and family started in the Tracy kenpo system, then when Richard Lee started with the Bok Fu Do around 1967, Mr Moore and family joined in.

    Shou Shu Lineage, just look up Tracy Kenpo Family Tree, Chow,Ed Parker, Tracy Bro's, Bob Blackmoore,and Richard Lee a 10 degree under the Tracy's.


    About Us - Hall of Fame - 1960s

    wwwbokfudo.com/halloffame1960,saspx


    The following names are a complete list of outstanding world class Black Belt men and women,
    dating back to the 1960's, developed, recognized, and certified by Grandmaster Richard Lee.


    Richard Lee Black Belts 1960's

    Pat Douglas
    Glen Hasstedt
    Al Moore
    Ralph Moore
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 8/18/2007 8:58am at . Reason: Royal Blue? You picked Royal Blue on a black background? Where did you learn your color asthetics?
  9. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2007 6:42pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All those posts are a real eye-sore to pick apart and I still don't understand half of the cuts and pastes. I think Shou Shu just happens to be another Bad Kenpo labeling itself again as a Kung Fu or something. That's about the whole story.

    But I mean, with all the cuts/pastes and unexplained posts I'm almost annoyed enough to start a shitty Kenpo/Kung Fu ripoff out of spite (Just kidding, but it's the closest I've ever gotten.)
  10. TKD Black Belt is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2007 6:48pm


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude really, can you explain your point of view in two or three concise sentences?

    It would really help.

    TKD

    PS - Yes there is fancy colored fonts but please stop using them. They make my eyes sore.

    THIS IS NOT AN EXIT


    "Ladies and gentlemen, the pilot has instructed everyone to sit the **** down and shut the **** up." Henry Rollins
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