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  1. Frank White is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:34pm


     Style: chinese boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
    I've met 3, one was actually at a throwdown and we had to keep telling to guy to lighten up. The other was a student of a mma fighter and of course the other was actually a mma fighter.
    I believe the guy at the throwdown was a Sacramento guy, and they are generally pretty screwy, even by Shou Shu standards. The main reason I began training there was because of the caliber if the students. I can usually spot a real-deal fighter.

    Omega, may I ask you where you teach? I respect your common-sense approach to Kung Fu as a fighting art, it seems to be harder to find these days.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:37pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by switchblade
    I believe the guy at the throwdown was a Sacramento guy, and they are generally pretty screwy, even by Shou Shu standards. The main reason I began training there was because of the caliber if the students. I can usually spot a real-deal fighter.

    Omega, may I ask you where you teach? I respect your common-sense approach to Kung Fu as a fighting art, it seems to be harder to find these days.
    Yes it was a Sacramento guy. I teach down in the Santa Barbara/Ventura area.
  3. Frank White is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:47pm


     Style: chinese boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thanks again.
  4. Steve85 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2007 11:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shou Shu

    I was a student of Al Moore's Shou Shu Karate in the early 1980's. During that time we sparred at about a 60% level. We sparred without much protection except for a cup. There were lots of split lips, bloody noses, a rare but ocasional broken bone (nose's, ribs). We did joint locks, judo type throws, traditional blocks, kicks, punches, kata, and self defense tech's. We also did a lot of free form application on resistant partners.

    Da Shifu Al Moore Jr. was very sucessful on the tourment circuit in the 1970's. I personally sparred with one of their master Da Shifu Smith he was a second degree at the time. He was fast very strong and would never stop, he was a machine that hit like a ton bricks.

    In the 1980's there was very few tourments that allowed contact most were point fighting tourments. Al Moore hated that style of tourment and labled it a game of tag. He thought that type of sparring would ruin you in a real fight. He thought full contact or heavy contact sparring was acceptable, it helped teach distant, timing, angle of attack and fighting spirt.

    In the 1980's their were about 80 active black belts. Al Moore Jr. was a fifth degree, there were two four degree, and a hand full of thirds most of the 80 were either seconds or first degree's.

    Everyone one of the black belts that I met were tuff, most were in several fights before they ever studied Shou Shu there were no wallflowers or paper tigers in this bunch. At lot of these guys were really not outstanding members of society.

    Sense that time I have studied judo, jujutsu, and kenpo. Shou Shu has many simialarities with those systems or styles, but there were some different concepts. All styles have there plus and minus what really makes a style or system effective is the individual and how much heart they have.

    Shou Shu maybe a mix of Tracy kenpo, American Kenpo, kung fu, and jujutsu but I think most of todays style are a mix of various Martial Arts. The History of Shou Shu was never really discussed much when I study, If you asked where Shou Shu came from you were told it came from China,while they maybe strecthing the truth what they taught in the 1980's was an Asia Martial Art. Yes I heard all of the stories about China and Al Moore's studies in Oakland with Lu Chin I just did not put much stock in it. I just trained, I made this post to shed so light on the Shou Shu of the 1980's.
  5. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2007 10:56am


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Thanks for the information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve85
    Shou Shu maybe a mix of Tracy kenpo, American Kenpo, kung fu, and jujutsu but I think most of todays style are a mix of various Martial Arts.

    The History of Shou Shu was never really discussed much when I study, If you asked where Shou Shu came from you were told it came from China,while they maybe strecthing the truth what they taught in the 1980's was an Asia Martial Art.

    Yes I heard all of the stories about China and Al Moore's studies in Oakland with Lu Chin I just did not put much stock in it. I just trained, I made this post to shed so light on the Shou Shu of the 1980's.

    Correct, Tracy's Chinese Kenpo and Richard Lee's White tiger kung fu Bok Fu (Asia MA). with American Kenpo = Al Moore's Shou Shu, not a bad thing, but now you have reading material.

    Train hard, Know your lineage!! Half the fight is from the heart!!!


    T.S.
  6. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 1:22am


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread's been dead for two weeks but I just have to ask a question.

    Truth Seeker, you contacted me well over a year ago to confirm that Al Moore was a Richard Lee BB. I've read pretty much this same thread in other places since then. The question is this: What is it that Al Moore did that made you take on debunking him as a personal crusade? I mean no offense, you've done a great deal of investigation and research, but why? I'm sure you have what you feel are very legitimate reasons but this borders on obsession.
  7. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 6:56am


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Words!

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca
    obsession.


    Obsession

    1 : a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling; broadly : compelling motivation


    de·vo·tion
    2 a : the act of devotion<devotion of time and energy> b : the fact or state of being ardently dedicated and loyal <her devotion to the cause> <filial devotion>

    Which words apply? when trying to present the

    truth
    3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality.

    Which is a unreasonable idea, The Shou Shu claims are real, or Bullshido?

    The world is full of BS'ers, nothing new, but when the Al Moore's of the world come into play and pass the BS on to are kids as truth,and then they pass it on to others. Now turning them into liars, should we not be devoted in pointing it out.

    It's not really about Al Moore,or MA's, just a little word called truth. You might think it's strange but I think all the Shou Shu members deserve to know their true lineage.

    Answer to your question, Family!
    Last edited by Truth seeker; 9/05/2007 7:39am at .
  8. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 11:49am


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth seeker
    Obsession

    1 : a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling; broadly : compelling motivation


    de·vo·tion
    2 a : the act of devotion<devotion of time and energy> b : the fact or state of being ardently dedicated and loyal <her devotion to the cause> <filial devotion>

    Which words apply? when trying to present the

    truth
    3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality.

    Which is a unreasonable idea, The Shou Shu claims are real, or Bullshido?

    The world is full of BS'ers, nothing new, but when the Al Moore's of the world come into play and pass the BS on to are kids as truth,and then they pass it on to others. Now turning them into liars, should we not be devoted in pointing it out.

    It's not really about Al Moore,or MA's, just a little word called truth. You might think it's strange but I think all the Shou Shu members deserve to know their true lineage.

    Answer to your question, Family!
    I have no problem with frauds being exposed, they drag us all down. I said "borders on obsession" because you seem to have drawn the line just short of that. As I pointed out, you've been at this for well over a year. That's what raises my eyebrows a bit. Every post of yours I've read on this issue, regardless of the forum, is written the same way, with different fonts, different colors, web links, etc. It seems well choreographed like you've taken this on as a mission. That's where my curiosity comes from. It appears to be more than just exposing a fraud.

    From what I've seen of Shou Sou from the videos that have been posted, it's Bok Fu but it's gone far astray from the system developed by GM Lee. Unfortunately, that's true of most schools that purport to teach Bok Fu but have no contact, or have severed contact with him. It's too bad.
  9. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2007 4:04pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    FYI

    ABOUT GRANDSHIFU SUTHERBY.

    After leaving the military in 1971, Sutherby moved to central California. Anxious to continue his studies in the martial arts, he started researching the schools in the area. He hoped to find a studio that taught something similar to what he learned overseas.

    He found Moore's Karate, overseen by Da Shifu Al Moore, Sr. At that time, Da Shifu Moore taught Kempo, and Sutherby studied this for the first year.

    ((Then Da Shifu Moore created the art of Shou Shu,))

    turning away from the hardness of the external styles to focus instead on the softer movement of the internal styles. Sutherby was privileged to both witness and be a part of this change. After studying with Da Shifu Moore and other senior black belts, Sutherby obtained his 1st degree black belt.

    At the end of 1978, he had to make a career move to Oregon and so he was forced to end his studies with Da Shifu Al Moore.

    I wonder if Al Moore told Sutherby about Richard Lee's Bok Fu that Al Jr. was learning at the same time Al and Ralph was (Creating the lost art of Shou Shu, that contained the same techniques of Bok Fu?)

    Last edited by Truth seeker; 11/11/2007 7:25pm at .
  10. Truth seeker is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/24/2007 6:40pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    No Techniques in Shou shu.

    Al Moore's story about no techniques in Shou Shu just came from the history of kenpo, Mr Tatum talks about no techniques in the kenpo system when he first started, the system only had forms. Information came from a informed ex Shou Shu member. Information found on a Larry Tatum DVD.

    Engineer of Motion DVD,found on the larry Tatum kenpo web site.

    Copy!

    T.S.
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