Posted On:7/22/2006 7:19am
Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Originally Posted by sdave
EXACTLY! It's so blindingly obvious, it's amazing that paranoid gun owners world wide can't see it!!!
While criminals may break SOME laws, it absolutely DOES NOT follow logically that they'd ignore ALL laws, especially socially important laws like those restricting firearm ownership.
Sure, they may prey on the weak (which, admittedly, would be a much larger group if they were the only ones with guns) but still, criminals are good people deep down inside and they can be trusted to do the right thing.
Obviously, the allure of nearly unbridled power over a defenesless public is compelling, but there is no reason to assume that people who, by definition, ignore at least SOME conventions of human decency (or at the very least a few social mores) are going to give in to such temptation.
Wait, all of that was stupid... Forget I said anything.
Criminal assholes, and by that I don't mean some guy who breaks a law for some odd reason, but a true criminal asshole still has wierd rationalizations about things.
I just arressted one such young fellow. I pulled him over for speeding...70 in a 45. Little did I know he was:
-Revoked for a DUI from several years ago
-Suspended for a DUI/crash last month
Yet he got all huffy when I asked if he had needles in his pocket. "I'm not a druggie, DUDE."
Just a stupid drunk twice over, and a felonious thief 7 times over. All that can be explained though. This current DUI is a bogus-ass charge, and I have nothing better to do than take out my aggression with bogus-ass charges. Did I mention how bogus this was?
Posted On:7/22/2006 1:00pm
Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA
So did you hit him with a taser?
Posted On:7/22/2006 1:33pm
If you just want one for protection, a simple pistol or revolver will do, like a colt or a beretta.
If you want to be a real man and start pillaging the **** out of every store you see, you can buy a shotgun at wal-mart, like the other guy said.
Posted On:7/22/2006 5:01pm
I wouldn't consider a colt or beretta simple.
For someone untrained in firearms & shooting who probably won't do much shooting on their off time a shotgun is a better choice for protection. If you can't hit what your aiming at then it doesn't matter WHAT your using.
For an example look no further than those videos on cops or whatever of police officers and criminals in a gun fight. Neither of them hit each other dispite being 15 feet away (or closer).
if a cop with firearms training can **** that up imagine what someone untrained would look like.
Posted On:7/22/2006 7:07pm
Style: judo, boxing, BJJ
What about an M-4 with a collapsable stock. You can use it in CQC or dial it out to 500 meters without optics. You can use it against anything from an Elk to some @$$ monkey trying to steal your stuff. :new_llyin
BJJ wins again!
Posted On:7/22/2006 7:47pm
Gentlemen, let's pause for a quick reality check:
1. Something simple, like a Colt or a Beretta. What is simple about these two brands? Do you have any particular model in mind? This is a little like saying you want a simple car like a Chevy. A Chevy W/T Work Truck model is simple; a Corvette is a world-class sports car. They're both Chevies.
Keep in mind, if most of your experience with firearms comes by way of movies and videogames, it's not experience. Nothing wrong with that, especially at your age and nowadays. It's getting hard to grow up around firearms in some parts of the country. But pretending knowledge prevents you from gaining knowledge.
2. Cops with firearms training.
Ask a range officer on any police force about this one. If you shoot IPSC or IDPA, you get more training than all but the SWAT guys. SOME cops like to shoot and take it seriously, and they get a lot of training because they pay for it and make time for it. Cops who depend on their departments get just enough training to be dangerous. Police departments are funded by municipal governments who will spend a million on new guns and expect to get the training done for 20 thousand.
For most cops, the gun is just a heavy, dangerous nuisance they have to carry for their jobs.
3. M4 for elk? This is not so bad, since you're talking a survival situation and using what you have, but let's make sure everyone is clear that in any normal hunting situation, using a .223 on elk is unethical.
On the other hand, it wouldn't be a bad gun for social purposes, and in many ways would be better than the 12 gauges the rest of us have been recommending. That all depends on whether you can make it run and keep it running, though. All AR15's are marginally reliable. All .223's are marginal when it comes to power. On top of that, an M4gery has a shorter barrel that causes a noticeable drop in velocity--a drop .223 can't really afford.
Still--a good suggestion despite all our attempts to derail the thread. There's hope for us yet.
Posted On:7/22/2006 9:34pm
make sure everyone is clear that in any normal hunting situation, using a .223 on elk is unethical.
That and I wouldn't want to be standing too close to the elk when you start blasting away at him with what amounts to a very fast .22 cal round. (40 grains vs 55).
I agree amout the police training. (Same can be said for the military if your not training for operations)
I used to shoot browning hipowers at the local police stations indoor range. It was AMAZING how many bullet holes were in the roof, floor and walls.
This however helps my point. Even with a police officers usually less than steller amount of training, they still get a decent amount compared to the average non-shooter, and look at how fucked up they can be.
A pistol in the hands of a complete noob is going to be inaccurate and dangerous to everyone around the shooter, including themselves. We just had a cop put a bullet into his foot a few months back.
I want an M4 in a bad way. Even just the upper receiver so I can sneak it overseas with me. Will look good beside my future SVD!
I'm undecided over a glock19, sig 226 and USP40 (i think thats what their called)
Posted On:7/22/2006 11:27pm
The very first guns I shot were the Colt Hammerless and the Beretta Px4 Storm. They were easy to aim and shoot, and the reconsile wasnt that strong. But I guess different people like different styles.
Posted On:7/23/2006 1:50pm
There's nothing wrong with those guns (are you talking about the Colt pocket gun--1903 or 1908 or something like that?) but neither has any particular advantage in simplicity.
The Colt hammerless patterns, in particular, have tiny safeties and tiny sights if I recall correctly. Nothing really wrong with that; everything did back then. But for someone's only or near-only gun, there are much better choices out there. Besides, those Colt hammerless weren't available in anything more powerful than .380/9mm Kurz, were they? And .25 and .32 acp were a lot more common.
No manstoppers in that group.
The Beretta Storms are neat little guns, but I don't much see the point unless you have a Beretta handgun and you want to use the same magazines. Again, a light , handy carbine that fires a pistol caliber can be useful in some situations, but not something I'd recommend for someone's main lifesaver. Having all the power of a 9mm or a .45 handgun, with all the size and weight of a short AK or AR15 pattern, is not advantageous in my mind.
Posted On:7/23/2006 7:43pm
Originally Posted by PirateJon
What kind of gun would be good for home defense, easy to maintain, easy to get ammo, etc. I read the home defense thread, but would a .45 still be the best answer? I do plan on taking the concealed carry course soon.
Do you want a gun that can do double duty as a conceal carry pistol and a home defense pistol?
If so I have a few pistols, you might want to check out…
Glock 27, 40 cal
Glock 30, 45 cal
Glock 36, 45 cal
Kimber Pro Carry II
Kimber Pro Carry HD II
Kimber Ultra Carry II
Springfield XD Sub Compact (The XD line of pistols were named the NRA Handgun of the Year)
Since you wanted a gun that is simple, you might what to check out the Glocks and the Springfield XD. 1911 pistols are wonderful but they are guns for gun geeks. If you want a simple and reliable pistol that can double as a CC gun, I would lean towards the modern polymer guns.
The best advice that we can give is to go to a gun range that rents out firearms and try a few. See what you like, shop around, and then buy.
Once you have you new gun, pick up a few extra magazines, about 500 rounds of ammunition, and practice, practice, practice…
Last edited by Olorin; 7/23/2006 7:58pm at .
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