What gun do I need? Also, survivalism!

**sdave** · Posted On: 7/19/2006 10:59pm

The 1911 is simple to maintain, effective and can often be obtained rather inexpensively (though they can get pricey for a nice rig). There's a reason the design is still so popular after 100 years...

It's VERY difficult for me to walk away from one if I have a reasonable chunk of cash in my pocket, but I do have a bad habit of picking up a new magazine whenever I see one. I usually have 2 or 3 clips loaded with 230gr. Hydra-Shoks lying around in my Jeep and at least half a dozen more around the house at any given time.

For home defense, a 12ga is hugely popular. It's ridiculously versatile and you can load it with anything from rock salt to dimes if 00 buckshot or a tungsten core slug aren't to your liking.

Now if you're talking about a complete collapse of civilization scenario, or if you're going to move out to the middle of nowhere a la Thoreau, you might consider an AIR gun http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/index.html. The nice ones can bring down game animals. Lead bullets can be molded over a wood fire, and as long as you can breathe you have air to shoot it (if you have no air for propellant, then shooting your gun is the LEAST of your problems).

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 7/19/2006 11:17pm

If it's home defense, you cannot go wrong with a 870 with a surefire light on it.

I own 16 rifles and handguns, my favorite carry is an HK USP .40, for my Bug out bag, I have a Para Ord Nite Hawg .45 cal.

Get a firearm that you can get ammo for no matter what. 9mm and .45 are the two most common. One of my training partners for combat shooting shipped off to the middle east to do some exec protection. He trained with a GLOCK 9mm and a Rem 870.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 7/20/2006 12:32am

I'm not here to shame anybody; I think you guys have done a good job here. I wouldn't argue with anyone who keeps a pump 12 guage for defending the home, although mine is an Ithaca. The upside is that it NEVER fails and it was free. The downside is that it weighs a ton and it would cost me a lot more than the 870 guys if I wanted to pimp it with "tactical" stuff.

I don't worry much about lights mounted to guns, but you definitely want some reliable lights. Some means more than two.

The other thing you need that most people just ignore is training. The fact that you are getting training without being told by us tells me that you're one of the smart ones or you asked one of the smart ones.

This is a good sign. Go with my blessing.

If your shotgun is going to be used exclusively for home defense, I'd start with a tritium front sight or at the very least a fiber-optic sight. The fiber optics are dirt cheap for shotguns because they crank out millions for turkey hunters. Even at night, if you use a flashlight or a gun-mounted light, the fiber optic will capture enough of that to look like a brightly colored LED light.

Don't limit yourself to pump shotguns--shoot some and see what you want. Semi-autos like the Remington 1100 are very reliable, too, and there's no danger of you short-stroking the action as sometimes happens with a pump.

Don't limit yourself to 12 guage, either. Some people just hate the recoil. If you have a 12-guage already, you can purchase low-recoil slugs and shot now, but if you need to choose a gun anyway, a 20-guage in the same model will generally be lighter and handier than the 12 guage, and full-power 20 guage loads will cost less than reduced power 12's.

Don't count on a spreading pattern to keep you from having to aim, especially over short distances. Over indoor distances, even shot and buckshot often haven't spread open before they hit the target, so they hit like a heavy slug. This is no problem (heavy slugs are GOOD) as long as you hit your target.
Even if the target is far enough away for the pattern to open, you still want to center it in the pattern for the best effect.

If you're serious about buying a gun and learning to use it to hold off looters, you want a long gun. Pistols do not compare. Power and accuracy, accuracy and power.

I personally have an Ithaca 37 "Featherweight" (it is to laugh, but it was pretty light in 1937) that I inherited from my grandmother. But when I'm gone, my wife brings out a Remington 1100 Lightweight Youth 20 guage I've had since I was a boy. It does not hit as hard nor as far as a 12 guage, but she's confident with it and hits where she's aiming. Much more important.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 7/20/2006 1:54am

We used to have a Fabarm pump-action. I think it was for police. It had a short, vented barrel, and a beautiful blued finish. I suspect it would be excellent for self defence (we ofted used solid slugs), but I was always impressed by its accuracy: I actually used it for skeet shooting, and did quite well, even without it being choked for clay pigeons.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 7/21/2006 9:45pm

Good thing they took it away or who knows what might have happened.

Fuckers.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 7/21/2006 9:48pm

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

Good thing they took it away or who knows what might have happened.

Fuckers.

Nah, it was a luxury we didn't need.

Luckily, all the criminals gave theirs up too.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 7/21/2006 9:51pm

Oh, well, OK then. As long as you're being treated as well as the criminals.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 7/21/2006 9:57pm

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

Oh, well, OK then. As long as you're being treated as well as the criminals.

Not only that. The air of the moral high ground is so much sweeter. And the view...

**sdave** · Posted On: 7/21/2006 10:27pm

Originally Posted by DAYoung

Nah, it was a luxury we didn't need.

Luckily, all the criminals gave theirs up too.

EXACTLY! It's so blindingly obvious, it's amazing that paranoid gun owners world wide can't see it!!!

While criminals may break SOME laws, it absolutely DOES NOT follow logically that they'd ignore ALL laws, especially socially important laws like those restricting firearm ownership.

Sure, they may prey on the weak (which, admittedly, would be a much larger group if they were the only ones with guns) but still, criminals are good people deep down inside and they can be trusted to do the right thing.

Obviously, the allure of nearly unbridled power over a defenesless public is compelling, but there is no reason to assume that people who, by definition, ignore at least SOME conventions of human decency (or at the very least a few social mores) are going to give in to such temptation.

Right?

Wait, all of that was stupid... Forget I said anything.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 7/21/2006 10:53pm

Originally Posted by sdave

Obviously, the allure of nearly unbridled power over a defenesless public is compelling, but there is no reason to assume that people who, by definition, ignore at least SOME conventions of human decency (or at the very least a few social mores) are going to give in to such temptation.

It's ok. Now that we are part of the 'coalition of the willing', we get our feeling of nearly unbridled power over a defenesless public by proxy through our armed forces. Our criminals are much more docile now (although they do play some violent video games).