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  1. Oscar Goldman is offline
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    Judo: the anti-trapple

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 12:55am

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     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    ... falls in judo is different than aikido, after so many years of doing rolly aikido ukemi, I am still afraid to take the full ippon seoi-nage type ukemi... I have to overcome the psychological barrier. Other than that I am OK.

    The mental/psychology we have at aikido dojo is more of helping each other, and hence although we throw each other, we look after one another by not throwing full force, we allow uke an easy way out in terms of ukemi.
    I don't know about your Judo dojo, but we have the same psychology of not wrecking our training partners as aikido.

    Because Judo throws work against resisting opponents and can wreck your ****, you have to fall differently (as you said) and you can only spot your partner so much. Sometimes, it just hurts anyway.

    I do some Japanese JJ as well sometimes and in my limited experience, the feeling of "going along" with a wristlock takedown is a whole different animal than realizing you fucked up as you go over someones shoulder at a high rate of speed.
  2. LolodesBois is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 1:51am

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     Style: Yoseikan Budo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did 8 years of Aikido and now i'm in Yoseikan Budo where we spar with contact (no rules but with protection and gloves) every week and these are things I regularly use from aikido:

    Evasive and irimi footwork
    Ukemi
    Small joint locks on the ground (yes with resistance )
    Martial Arts is like sex, if you over complicate it with exotic sounding names, theories and principles, you end up fucking yourself in the ass. -Ronin69
  3. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 2:15am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LolodesBois
    I did 8 years of Aikido and now i'm in Yoseikan Budo where we spar with contact (no rules but with protection and gloves) every week and these are things I regularly use from aikido:

    Evasive and irimi footwork
    Ukemi
    Small joint locks on the ground (yes with resistance )
    I think one of the biggest and most signaturish of aikido's physical manifestation is her evasive foot work.

    Wrt to small joints lock... do you mean finger locking technique or wrist lock? Lolodesbois, how easy do you find putting small joint locks on a resistive partner?

    I have never use aikido-type wrist lock on my judo partner before, elbow lock yes (hiji shime or waki-gatamae), but not wrist lock as I want to keep the two art distinct.

    GMW
  4. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 2:30am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FatmgrDad
    I don't know about your Judo dojo, but we have the same psychology of not wrecking our training partners as aikido.
    I don't know FatMnrDad, my judo dojo is one of the state approved centre for training under 18's judo competitors. The coach / sensei is an IJF sanctioned referee. People at my judo dojo throw pretty hard on each other. as they are brain-washed to get an ippon each time they throw.

    It is very different than how we throw each other in my aikido dojo where folks tend to be there for social pursuit. I think if we throw how the judp guys throw in my aikido dojo... we will lose students very fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatMgrDad
    II do some Japanese JJ as well sometimes and in my limited experience, the feeling of "going along" with a wristlock takedown is a whole different animal than realizing you fucked up as you go over someones shoulder at a high rate of speed.
    Yes, getting slammed at high speed over someones shoulder is scary, something which I have to overcome... I know I know, it is all in the mind, but nonetheless, it is scary.

    In my aikido dojo, even if we do koshi-nage (hip throw) once we completely got the uke over our hips, we will not slam, but instead help uke to fall gently. I think this is the different in terms of throwing between my aikido vis-a-vis the judo dojo.

    GMW
  5. LolodesBois is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 2:36am

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     Style: Yoseikan Budo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    I think one of the biggest and most signaturish of aikido's physical manifestation is her evasive foot work.
    agreed and it pisses my sparing partner when I pull it off since all of a sudden I'm on his side or even behind him...

    Wrt to small joints lock... do you mean finger locking technique or wrist lock? Lolodesbois, how easy do you find putting small joint locks on a resistive partner?
    I mean elbow and wrist locks and they are quite difficult to apply on a resisting partner, finger are too easy to break in an alive environment and aren't as eficient.

    For example we usualy start our ground work from knees and you know the textbook omote ikkyo/nikyo from shoulder grab where you strike to the head and then grab the guys wrist well I learned vry quickly that it doesn't work because when striking the guy he moves his hands to either strike you back or grab you somewhere else hence the way to get to the wrist lock is very different but I manage to get some in..

    I have never use aikido-type wrist lock on my judo partner before, elbow lock yes (hiji shime or waki-gatamae), but not wrist lock as I want to keep the two art distinct.

    GMW
    That's why I love Yoseikan I don't have to keep things distinct as we have Aikido, karate, judo, boxing plus weapons all in one art :-)
    Martial Arts is like sex, if you over complicate it with exotic sounding names, theories and principles, you end up fucking yourself in the ass. -Ronin69
  6. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 2:55am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lolodesBois
    agreed and it pisses my sparing partner when I pull it off since all of a sudden I'm on his side or even behind him...
    And a good position to follow up with shomen-ate or ushiro-ate or RNC!

    Quote Originally Posted by LolodesBois
    That's why I love Yoseikan I don't have to keep things distinct as we have Aikido, karate, judo, boxing plus weapons all in one art :-)
    Sounds like MMA to me... lol.

    GMW.
  7. LolodesBois is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 3:22am

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     Style: Yoseikan Budo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    And a good position to follow up with shomen-ate or ushiro-ate or RNC!
    Well that's what I'm working on see I'm usually as surprised as they are when it works that I forget to follow up :-)

    Sounds like MMA to me... lol.

    GMW.
    Well If I was able to train as often I as wanted to I would have entered some MMA competition by now.
    Martial Arts is like sex, if you over complicate it with exotic sounding names, theories and principles, you end up fucking yourself in the ass. -Ronin69
  8. sochin101 is offline
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    Graviora Manent

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 5:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ummm... the only thing that remains with me from my very brief time with Aikido is: When you buy a sword, make sure it's full tang, not with a bolted on handle.
    If I ever buy a sword, that advice will be heeded, I promise.
    I've happily sublimated sore wrists and trying to guess which way I was going to be yanked so I could hurl myself in that direction.
    I know "yanked" and "hurl" aren't the correct technical terminology, but I didn't hang around long enough to learn any more than that.
  9. Oscar Goldman is offline
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    Judo: the anti-trapple

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 12:15pm

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     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    I don't know FatMnrDad, my judo dojo is one of the state approved centre for training under 18's judo competitors. The coach / sensei is an IJF sanctioned referee. People at my judo dojo throw pretty hard on each other. as they are brain-washed to get an ippon each time they throw.
    Do you mean under 18 years of age? That is probably your answer. No way my body could take that every week at my age. I see a lot of judo guys in their 40s and 50s "retire" into BJJ. If they are really going for full ippon every throw in practice, you would have to be young to survive it.
  10. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2006 1:43pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a big fan of practicing your throws on a crash mat, that way you can do 50 throws without killing your partner, then he is still in the shape needed to give a good sparing match at the end of class.

    I learned a lot from aikido. I learned what I didn't want to spend my time doing. What types of instruction do and dont' work for me. My noob guillotine choke escape (sankyu), Ikkyo to back mount when we start on our knees, good falling skills (both rolls and breakfalls), and finally my ghetto nikkyo guard pass for people who try very sloppy collar chokes from the guard. Most of this is low percentage (except for falling, and ikkyo which doesn't help in competition because we dont start from the knees and I can't make it work standing with any relaiblity). My most imprtant things learned where really from judo and aikido at the same time. Aikido taught me how to move in a well balanced way, which helped my judo, and judo taught me the training methods needed to be effective with a martial art. That lead ultimatly to my leaving aikido (you can read the article on that if you want).

    Aikido wasn't a bad thing, if anything it was a gateway drug back into the martial arts after my bad exp with mcdojo's and bullshido schools as a child.
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