Martial Arts - How Important is the Pain?

**Airman Kai** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 12:31pm

I'm not so sure it's the PAIN I enjoy, but if I'm rolling around on the mat, or trading blows with a buddy at the gym, then I would have to say that I feel better doing that then some other activity that doesn't include pain.

**Phrost** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 1:05pm

Cicero said it best:

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

Or essentially, that nobody actually likes pain or seeks it out for its own end; but we can appreciate the positive effects that pain brings.

**theraydiator** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 1:44pm

Part of me likes the bruises I come home with. Not in that "hey everyone look at my fashion statement" way, but I do have a certain appreciation for them. Also, the pain or desperation of being in a real bad spot gets the adrenalin flowing, and if you manage it well and overcome that bad situation.... then you feel like the ****. You can't get that feeling in an office or at home - only place I've found it is the gym.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 5:37pm

OK. All great responses - thanks. The overall impression I get is that no-one longs for pain for it's own saks, but for what it beings with it: progress or victory. Mutual struggle is also valued.

However, another common sentiment seems to be that it wouldn't be the same without the pain - if we were anaesthetised, we would not get the same 'high'. This suggests that, if we are not motivated by pain, its invigorating effects are still enjoyed. We don't seek the pain as an end in itself, but we begin to look forward to it. It is a 'buzz' we can't get anywhere else, and part and parcel of the art.

**Neildo** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 5:59pm

Originally Posted by DAYoung

However, another common sentiment seems to be that it wouldn't be the same without the pain - if we were anaesthetised, we would not get the same 'high'. This suggests that, if we are not motivated by pain, its invigorating effects are still enjoyed.

Hm.

If i couldnt feel it, i'd probably go harder, longer. Then suffer later. Unless there were more anaesthetics.

**Lights Out** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 6:05pm

Originally Posted by DAYoung

However, another common sentiment seems to be that it wouldn't be the same without the pain - if we were anaesthetised, we would not get the same 'high'. This suggests that, if we are not motivated by pain, its invigorating effects are still enjoyed. We don't seek the pain as an end in itself, but we begin to look forward to it. It is a 'buzz' we can't get anywhere else, and part and parcel of the art.

So, we do MA for the endorfins?

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 6:30pm

Originally Posted by Lights Out

So, we do MA for the endorfins?

Perhaps not. But if it didn't have them, and the pain associated with them, it wouldn't be the same. I am also getting a sense that contact and strain is essential - see CNagy's post. This is what I never found in Aikido - not enough percussion, resistence, struggle. I was introduced to that in Karate, and found it more intensely in Judo.

I remember coming home from Judo on a warm summer night - the sky was clear, save for a few streaks of orange and red cloud, and the first stars. Walking to the bus, I was back into my everyday clothes, but still sweaty, dehydrated and exhausted. My legs were on fire, and all the skin was coming off my knuckles from clenching in randori. I had the usual bruises on my arms and chest. I was gleeful. As I walked, a music student in one of the houses started playing a violin piece, one of Vivaldi's. Somehow the still summer evening, the pain and exhaustion and the sweet violin came together in a sublime moment of bliss.

Now, I'm not saying this is what martial arts is about - it's not. Also, it might have been just my own propensity for great Romantic moments - it wouldn't be the first time. But I can't quite imagine this experience without the suffering involved in it, a suffering often found in the martial arts.

**Lights Out** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 6:48pm

[QUOTE=DAYoung]Perhaps not. But if it didn't have them, and the pain associated with them, it wouldn't be the same. I am also getting a sense that contact and strain is essential - see CNagy's post. This is what I never found in Aikido - not enough percussion, resistence, struggle. I was introduced to that in Karate, and found it more intensely in Judo. [QUOTE=DAYoung]

Well, my guess is the more it takes you to obtain something (like proficency in fighting) the more you value it.

Originally Posted by DAYoung

I remember coming home from Judo on a warm summer night - the sky was clear, save for a few streaks of orange and red cloud, and the first stars. Walking to the bus, I was back into my everyday clothes, but still sweaty, dehydrated and exhausted. My legs were on fire, and all the skin was coming off my knuckles from clenching in randori. I had the usual bruises on my arms and chest. I was gleeful. As I walked, a music student in one of the houses started playing a violin piece, one of Vivaldi's. Somehow the still summer evening, the pain and exhaustion and the sweet violin came together in a sublime moment of bliss.

Ah, the magic hour. that time in the day when the sun has just dissapeared in the horizon but the sky is not black yet. I love that time of the day. When I was in my previous gym, I always went to train at that time. I had to walk throught a bridge over a highway. I could feels the cars speeding under me and had a nice view of the city. Always stopped for a split second in the middle of the birdge to feel the moment.

Originally Posted by DAYoung

Now, I'm not saying this is what martial arts is about - it's not. Also, it might have been just my own propensity for great Romantic moments - it wouldn't be the first time. But I can't quite imagine this experience without the suffering involved in it, a suffering often found in the martial arts.

LOLZ! UR EM0!!!111

P.S. Dude, dunno what you're drinking, but you could spare a sip.

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 7:51pm

It's really only fun if you're dishing it out. The sense of accomplishment one gets from a hard workout is great and all but leaving the ring with your opponents blood on your hands is way better.

I got into this stuff partially to see what kind of punishment i could take and continue, but mostly I'm in it to see what i can dish out.

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 7/15/2006 8:31pm

It's best when you have a Bloodsport moment. You get your ass handed to you through most of the fight, but come out with the W at the end.

Owning a n00b isn't as fun as having a challenging match, and then winning it.