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  1. #1
    <plasma>'s Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Bujinkan, why do you hate Koto-ryu? video inside.

    [media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=AZNnv0XP_yc[/media]
    Link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AZNnv0XP_yc



    Ok seriously, I understand the unrealistic lunge punch, I understand the formal kata, but seriously this is NinpoTaijutsu?

    This video is everything wrong with that organization, fact middle age men playing ninja doing bujinkan version of a Ko-ryu technique, bringing it to the point obsurity.



    RubberTanto put it best:
    Quote Originally Posted by RubberTanto
    The only thing this guy could push was the doors open at McDonalds
    Last edited by <plasma>; 4/24/2007 4:12pm at .

  2. #2
    <plasma>'s Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Apparently, you hate Gyokko-ryu as well
    [media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=J2CinJwTLO4&mode=related&search=[/media]
    Link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=J2CinJwTL...elated&search=


    Any idea who these guys are?
    Last edited by <plasma>; 4/24/2007 4:12pm at .

  3. #3

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From an old "Ura & Omote" http://www.oniko.de/archiv/uraomote/...mber.html#3pha

    "Jeff Miller is a Licensed Private Investigator and Personal Protection Agent. He is the chief instructor of Miller's Martial Arts/Bujinkan Kuryu Dojo in Sunbury, PA. He has been training in the martial and meditative arts for 2/3 of his life with the last 11 years attempting to capture the 'essence' of ninpo-taijutsu, under the guidance of Shihan Stephen K. Hayes. Mr. Miller is a firearms instructor and wilderness survival tactician and conducts seasonal seminars on the topics. He is the editor of the HANNYA ('Insight') newsletter for individuals interested in learning more about themselves and their art"

    Here is his current website

    http://www.warrior-concepts-online.com/

    He's wear something golden. That's usually a very bad sign...

  4. #4

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is that VikiingPower/Koto Ryu's old school?

  5. #5

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jeff Mueller mentions him on Kutaki in this post: http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/...p?topic_id=229

    "I have known Jeff Miller for many years and if you are near him, he is a legitimate Bujinkan shidoshi."

    Here's an article written by Miller: http://www.ptbarticles.com/Recreatio...Situation.html

  6. #6
    Virus's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What did you expect kag3-n1nj3w? You know what the bujinkan is like, I'd wager that the dude spent 20 years doing typical "you lunge me, I'll lunge you" training.

  7. #7

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    The problem with that explanation spartan6 is that most Bujinkan practitioners never move past the framework, and the "concepts" are rarely applied at full speed against a resisting opponent.

  8. #8
    rw4th's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    No, you just have trouble reading.

    At the beginning down the end it says Koto-ryu Shoden no Maki Kata and Gyokko-ryu Joryaku no Maki Kata.

    Kata literally means form. These techniques are straight out of the densho and are replicated through the often vague and abstract descriptions.

    These two kata in question have many layers and are presented in the most basic form. They teach many concepts you need to work through and understand.


    If you still don't understand what im saying... these kata are a framework and not real techniques. You practice them, understand the concept and then derive verations.

    (If you have your own interpretation of Koto-ryu then post the videos. Im interested to see what they look like)
    If fighting could be learned the same way as physics or computer science then maybe I would agree with you, but fighting is not an academic endeavor. You can’t learn to fight by learning a “framework” with no basis in reality and then deriving “variations” from it.

    Simply put, what you said is pure, grade “A”, bullshit.

  9. #9
    Virus's Avatar
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    Bildung: T3h Correct.
    Rw4th: T3h Correct.

    That might be 100% true but even if the intended purpose is to learn something applicable to functional skill, it doesn't mean that it will achieve that outcome. The "framework" and the "concepts" explanation for silly looking kata and techniques fails to account for how the human body actually learns skills.

    Edit: But you do raise an interesting point. Kage-kaze, what is the real koto ryu that they are neglecting to do?
    Last edited by Virus; 4/24/2007 10:50am at .

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    At the beginning down the end it says Koto-ryu Shoden no Maki Kata and Gyokko-ryu Joryaku no Maki Kata.
    Take a look at people who have studied these Ryuha in their traditional form (Unsui Manaka or Shoto Tanemura for example) or who have made a strong study of the Ryuha in the context of the Bujinkan (Moti Nativ and Kacem Zoughari for example) and then take a look at these videos again. Do they seem like good representations of the Kata being demonstrated or do they seem like barely qualifying interpretations?

    Hell, let's just take yokuto from Koto Ryu and not even rely upon folks with serious study of Koto Ryu. How does the original video post compare to this video of someone with only Bujinkan kyu ranking?

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcb1dZkcxNo[/media]

    Or with the version one in this video at :40 to :45 seconds? [Edit: Koku from Gyokko Ryu appears at 1:10 to 1:15]

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7_KXybvvys[/media]

    Not all kata training is equal.
    Last edited by Fitz; 4/24/2007 1:38pm at .

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