Ippon Judo vs Kosen Judo
I was wondering if there was any difference between the two. Also, if there are any other forms of Judo other than the two I know now please include it in the thread.
I think that KOSEN is an acronym for the universities that adopted that style of competition. And the difference between the two, that I know of, is the focus on groundfighting in KOSEN.
Edit Understand that when the Kodokan was created Judo and Ju Jitsu was interchangable.
Also, use the search function n00b.
Last edited by ojgsxr6; 7/11/2006 3:59pm at .
Judo-do is another form of judo (in austria or something). From what I read on forums and saw on pictures. It looks like Judo but a bit aikido-esque.
Enshin karate and Daido juku incorporate judo takedowns.
as for kosen vs kodokan judo. it's just difference in area they focus to win a match just like ojgsxr6 said. and yeah...use search function. lot of this is already on forum.
edit: i think kanchoes for enshin and daido juku both are rank holding judoka.
At the time of the rule change of 1925 newaza was extremely popular and well researched, particularly by the Kosen Judo students. Since Kosen Judo was an inter-school team contest only, there was the possibility to draw. It was only ippon (win by pin, submission, or a perfect throw) or a draw. Newaza training was very useful because it is easier to get draws in newaza, and faster to get a beginner trained for competition. By this time turtle positions, double leg locks (closed-guard), half-guard and so on were extensively researched by the Kosen masters.
Kosen judo followed its own course and continued under the old rules even to this day in the Seven Universities Tournament. Kano was very careful not to obliterate Kosen judo when he introduced the new rules. He did this for several reservations:
There were relatively few doing newaza-only.
He wanted newaza specialists in judo.
He could not convince himself that doing only newaza was in itself bad.
Kosen judokas did also tachiwaza despite their emphasis in newaza.
This way the rule changes were not enforced throughout the judo world in Japan allowing judo to evolve both standing and onto the ground. The new rules were devised as a mean to emphasize tachiwaza while great care was taken not to make newaza unpopular.
Judo, as a whole, was not the sport that you see today.
OTM has a good article http://www.onthemat.com/wiki/index.php/Kosen_judo
and another. http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html
What it boils down to is Judo became more sport oriented due to pressure from the US during post war occupation. Judo was a well rounded art that used a sporting method for training but it was designed as fighting for the individual.
Ippon was also a standard used for the opponent submitting or being injured until they couldn't continue. There wasn't the complicated point systems that plague Judo and BJJ today, it was win by slam, submission, osaekomi (for the obvious reasoning that it would be possible to gnp), injury, or forfeit.
Last edited by MONGO; 8/16/2006 12:05pm at .
From what I know Kosen judo is just a rule set that enabled longer time for newaza. Since it was easier and safer to start teaching kids on the ground in the Meiji period in highschools that is exactly what they did, and held competitions, particularly in University. There is an article about it on the Kyodai judo team website:
So, nothing at all to do with the Americans. More between Kano and Butokuten and different ideas of what should make good Judo. Interesting that Todai have been too chicken to face Kyodai fr the last 16 years unless it's by Kodokan rules.
I didn't mean that American occupation ended kosen judo but it did modify the mentality with which judo was practiced. The change effectively changed the ippon standard (not as violent).
I would actually blame the olympics for ruining the newaza. Stand ups should be few and far between but it wouldn't be spectator friendly.
Kosen Judo is Kodokan Judo.
"Mastering Jujitsu" by Renzo Gracie & John Danaher is a must read. John lays the history out really well.
"Ruining"? Would you go as far as to say "ruin"? Judo players today are still pretty well rounded for the most part, granted their newaza skills far short of what they used to be back int he day.
Originally Posted by MONGO
He didn't say ruin Judo, he said "...ruining the newaza." and he is right. You agree yourself saying newaza is far short of what it used to be back in the day.
Originally Posted by TKDer