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  1. The Man is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2006 3:41pm


     Style: Searching for one...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ippon Judo vs Kosen Judo

    I was wondering if there was any difference between the two. Also, if there are any other forms of Judo other than the two I know now please include it in the thread.

    Thank you
  2. ojgsxr6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2006 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that KOSEN is an acronym for the universities that adopted that style of competition. And the difference between the two, that I know of, is the focus on groundfighting in KOSEN.

    Edit Understand that when the Kodokan was created Judo and Ju Jitsu was interchangable.
    Also, use the search function n00b.
    Last edited by ojgsxr6; 7/11/2006 3:59pm at .
  3. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2006 2:17pm


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo-do is another form of judo (in austria or something). From what I read on forums and saw on pictures. It looks like Judo but a bit aikido-esque.

    Enshin karate and Daido juku incorporate judo takedowns.

    as for kosen vs kodokan judo. it's just difference in area they focus to win a match just like ojgsxr6 said. and yeah...use search function. lot of this is already on forum.

    edit: i think kanchoes for enshin and daido juku both are rank holding judoka.
  4. El Neko is offline
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    "Yes Neko, please keep telling me more about your manly collection of Star Wars audiobooks"

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2006 8:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At the time of the rule change of 1925 newaza was extremely popular and well researched, particularly by the Kosen Judo students. Since Kosen Judo was an inter-school team contest only, there was the possibility to draw. It was only ippon (win by pin, submission, or a perfect throw) or a draw. Newaza training was very useful because it is easier to get draws in newaza, and faster to get a beginner trained for competition. By this time turtle positions, double leg locks (closed-guard), half-guard and so on were extensively researched by the Kosen masters.

    Kosen judo followed its own course and continued under the old rules even to this day in the Seven Universities Tournament. Kano was very careful not to obliterate Kosen judo when he introduced the new rules. He did this for several reservations:

    There were relatively few doing newaza-only.
    He wanted newaza specialists in judo.
    He could not convince himself that doing only newaza was in itself bad.
    Kosen judokas did also tachiwaza despite their emphasis in newaza.
    This way the rule changes were not enforced throughout the judo world in Japan allowing judo to evolve both standing and onto the ground. The new rules were devised as a mean to emphasize tachiwaza while great care was taken not to make newaza unpopular.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosen_judo
  5. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2006 12:02pm

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     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo, as a whole, was not the sport that you see today.

    OTM has a good article http://www.onthemat.com/wiki/index.php/Kosen_judo

    and another. http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html


    What it boils down to is Judo became more sport oriented due to pressure from the US during post war occupation. Judo was a well rounded art that used a sporting method for training but it was designed as fighting for the individual.

    Ippon was also a standard used for the opponent submitting or being injured until they couldn't continue. There wasn't the complicated point systems that plague Judo and BJJ today, it was win by slam, submission, osaekomi (for the obvious reasoning that it would be possible to gnp), injury, or forfeit.
    Last edited by MONGO; 8/16/2006 12:05pm at .
  6. redcarded is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2006 6:09am


     Style: CLF

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what I know Kosen judo is just a rule set that enabled longer time for newaza. Since it was easier and safer to start teaching kids on the ground in the Meiji period in highschools that is exactly what they did, and held competitions, particularly in University. There is an article about it on the Kyodai judo team website:
    http://www.kusu.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~judo/history-e.htm
    So, nothing at all to do with the Americans. More between Kano and Butokuten and different ideas of what should make good Judo. Interesting that Todai have been too chicken to face Kyodai fr the last 16 years unless it's by Kodokan rules.
  7. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2006 10:48am

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I didn't mean that American occupation ended kosen judo but it did modify the mentality with which judo was practiced. The change effectively changed the ippon standard (not as violent).

    I would actually blame the olympics for ruining the newaza. Stand ups should be few and far between but it wouldn't be spectator friendly.
  8. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/21/2006 11:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kosen Judo is Kodokan Judo.

    "Mastering Jujitsu" by Renzo Gracie & John Danaher is a must read. John lays the history out really well.
  9. TKDer is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2006 1:23pm


     Style: Kukki-Taekwondo, Yudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MONGO
    I didn't mean that American occupation ended kosen judo but it did modify the mentality with which judo was practiced. The change effectively changed the ippon standard (not as violent).

    I would actually blame the olympics for ruining the newaza. Stand ups should be few and far between but it wouldn't be spectator friendly.
    "Ruining"? Would you go as far as to say "ruin"? Judo players today are still pretty well rounded for the most part, granted their newaza skills far short of what they used to be back int he day.
  10. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2006 1:38pm


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TKDer
    "Ruining"? Would you go as far as to say "ruin"? Judo players today are still pretty well rounded for the most part, granted their newaza skills far short of what they used to be back int he day.
    He didn't say ruin Judo, he said "...ruining the newaza." and he is right. You agree yourself saying newaza is far short of what it used to be back in the day.
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