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  1. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:11am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys are stupid.

    omega,

    >Why do you think we tried it ourselves?

    I don't know, maybe the same reason the people who wrote the articles I gave you tried it themselves.

    This stuff I posted is common knowledge. I cited those sources to prove that it is common knowledge. I don't base my conclusions on just my limited experience and you shouldn't base it on your limited experience either. I didn't base my conclusions on a single article either. I gave you a variety of sources. I could have found you a hundred pages that said the same thing if I had the time.

    One study group of 10 kids in some dojo doesn't overshadow experts in the field writing down their findings to educate us. You are assuming that the people who write articles on bjj.org and judoinfo.com have never been in a naked choke. How arrogant is it to assume that?

    >The study we put on were with non
    >resisting assailants.

    When will that ever happen in combat or in competition?

    >I think you guys read too much.

    What the hell? I guess if Rickson Gracie wrote an article on it then it would be wrong just because it's written down.

    >If you would simply conduct a test
    >yourself you'll find out its about
    >5 seconds to complete face down
    >unconsciousness.

    Bullshit. I've been in the naked choke more times than you can count. One of my drills in sparring was to let people get me in locks like that and see how long it took me to get out. Never was I choked out and sometimes I was in that very same hold for minutes at a time. I was resisting though. My training never involved the go limp and pretend to already be unconscious technique.

    >The three seconds was when a persons body
    >went limp.

    This sounds like how they used to lift Hulk Hogan's arm when he was in the sleeper hold until on the third time he would Hulk out of it and shake his arm and start bugging his eyes out. What kind of evidence is that? "Hmm, he seems limp to me" - yea, he started out limp. You told him to not resist. You told him to be limp.

    >Those "studies" were probably hyperbole
    >and weren't done scientifically.

    That's why they are on those web pages, because they are hyperboyle. Only your school has the real truth. your Kung Fu eeeeeeeeeeeiiis better than theirs! Nobody at BJJ.org or Judoinfo.com or at Black Belt Magazine has ever been in a choke. Only you and your school know the real truth. Whatever. pshh

    >We did this because of an incident where
    >somebody died from a choke hold. The person
    >was a bouncer and said he only put it on for
    >a few seconds.

    The blood flow in the corotid can occasionally stop flowing completely because the muscles around it seize up. You have to be aware of how to help revive a person by getting that blood flowing again. That guy was most likely not dead after 3 seconds, he just wasn't revived in time. Maybe your school should pay more attention to teaching revival and resuscitation techniques for safety. If you don't know them try buying a book. - Oh, I forgot.. education is something you are against. I guess you will have to just go find a better teacher .. or one that reads once in a while.

    What was the cause of death? Are you sure it wasn't a heart attack or a broken neck? Did the bouncer ride to the hospital with the guy and make sure?

    >Everybody came up with those stats too.

    Yea, EVERYBODY. The most educated and experienced Judo, BJJ and JJJ experts on the planet included.

    >Just try it yourself I'll send you the
    >conditions by PM if you want or I'll do
    >it at the WCR and let everybody else reply
    >back.

    I can't go to the WCR. Just try it out on some resisting opponents. Trying it out on a limp guy just laying there like a CPR dummy is of no use whatsoever to anyone. Heck, you could tell him he is passed out and he would believe you. He is limp, how would he know the difference?



    Edited by - 9chambers on June 01 2003 03:24:52
  2. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been in the naked choke more times than you can count. One of my drills in sparring was to let people get me in locks like that and see how long it took me to get out. Never was I choked out and sometimes I was in that very same hold for minutes at a time.
    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??????!!!!!

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  3. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    err... you obviously weren't in the hold, unless your brain doesn't require oxygen, in which case you are a zombie.
  4. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:22am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was escaping, I dug my chin in, turned .. pulled, we rolled around. The goal was to escape, not just lay back and enjoy it.

    Hey, maybe I am "unchokeable" .. :P
  5. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You aren't IN the choke unless your blood flow is shut off.
  6. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Xi'an, P.R.C.
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    4,249

    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That makes my punching all the more powerfull because I didn't actually punch you unless you were KTFO!

    BAH ! Puny Humans !
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  7. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:47am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh


    still, that takes more than 3 seconds
  8. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 3:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, it takes 10 to 20 seconds, according to peer reviewed scientific literature.

    Omar: That's not what I'm saying. If you throw a punch at me and it never hits me, then you didn't punch me, you missed, ergo there was something wrong with your punch.
  9. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    4,249

    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 9:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    bradeissansoo: MY PUNCH IS UNSTOPPABLE!!! If it hit's you, THERE IS NO DEFENSE!!!!


    BAH ! Puny Humans !
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  10. MMA_Phil is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2003
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    Pacific
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    780

    Posted On:
    6/01/2003 10:40am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "I've been in the naked choke more times than you can count. One of my drills in sparring was to let people get me in locks like that and see how long it took me to get out. Never was I choked out and sometimes I was in that very same hold for minutes at a time."

    WTF? Have you been fighting small children?

    I can agree with 10-20 seconds, I said 8 before but it might have been 12 my instructor told me. Anyway, against a fully resisting opponent you will not choke them out in 3 seconds even with hooks sunk, back arched, and all.
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