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  1. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

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    Mar 2003
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    angola, ny
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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 10:41am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    would a jjj practioner please define hadaka ichi and hadaka ni to these gentleman.

    choking in these postures is only one option.
    turning out and disabling the wrist is crucial to avoiding a very dangerous 'class' of techniques.

    being as i am 'just' a kuntao practitioner, i will leave this discussion to more 'qualified' respondants.



    peace.

    " a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"
  2. deus ex machina is offline
    deus ex machina's Avatar

    ***ned

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 2:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: i

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just try it yourself I'll send you the conditions by PM if you want or I'll do it at the WCR and let everybody else reply back.
    Stay away! BACK !!!

    ~
    danny

    "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"
  3. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    8,293

    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 2:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:
    Where the **** do you get your statistics!!!!!

    8 seconds? What are you trying to do? Kill somebody?

    It takes less than 3 seconds for a person to lose consciousness.
    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>
    Tell it to J Forensic Sci 1987 Mar;32(2):419-32

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uid s=3572335&dopt=Abstract
  4. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 2:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hadaka Jime?

    Naked Choke. I don't know about 1 or 2 (ichi, ni) but I assume your're talking about the difference between a forearm strangle across the front of the throat and a carotid choke with the elbow as the point of a triangle beneath the opponent's chin.

    Okay, I don't like doing this over the internet, which is why I have refrained. As far as I know, turning your head in towards the elbow is not a good idea.

    both arteries need to be sealed to produce unconciousness. drag the wrist, turn the chin towards his wrist, other hand uses palm to lift his elbow. you need to pivot towards him.
    This is correct. It defends against the choke and the strangle simultaneously. You should also sit out and try to align your body perpendicular with your opponents. Too many people fight the choke and then try to get right straight up.

    I think Omega means something different when he says that you should "turn the head toward the elbow". Maybe he means "bow the head towards the elbow". That would make more sense



    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Xi'an, P.R.C.
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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 3:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the clarification. The problem seems like we're all picturing the choke at different levels of being set in. I mean optimally you just want to tuck your chin in tight to your own shoulder immediately. It seems like we all agree on that much. The head turning thing...you may not have as much choice which way to turn. I suppose, yeah, toward the wrist is good, but the way I was seeing it in my head, that would mean turning first into his forearm and getting past that to get to the wrist. If your chin is at 12 o'clock then obviously towards the wrist is better.

    I think about when someone goes for it while we're standing. Which way am I getting yanked? The first escape I ever learned was a shoulder throw, but that is just ridiculous if your being yanked backwards. If I'm already being off-balanced that direction I can frequently escape by going with it and twisting out toward his elbow and even ending up behind the guy who was just behind me. If we're on the ground, who's on top? Are we face down or up? Hooks in or not? Long sleeves on or sweaty and sleeveless? When it starts to set in where is your chin already pointed?

    BAH ! Puny Humans !
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  6. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 3:40pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think Omega means something different when he says that you should "turn the head toward the elbow". Maybe he means "bow the head towards the elbow". That would make more sense
    Where did I say this.

    As for that study shown before by Brand, until I see the actual test subject I'd rather not go into a debate. Please read a little more carfully what I said on the first place. I did say on the average, I gave medians, and I did clarify "seeing stars"



    Go away I'm talking to myself
  7. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 3:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The whole point of a peer reviewed journal is so everyone doesn't have to do the same experiment over and over.

    You said "It takes less than 3 seconds for a person to lose consciousness."

    The peer reviewed journal said "When properly applied, the choke hold causes unconsciousness in 10 to 20 s"
  8. deus ex machina is offline
    deus ex machina's Avatar

    ***ned

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 4:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: i

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Weeza gonna hafta do sum expermintin. BWHAHAHAHA

    ~
    danny

    "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"
  9. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 4:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you think the study is worng, maybe we should do some experimenting. REcord the results, write it up, and maybe get it published <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2003 4:28pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You said "It takes less than 3 seconds for a person to lose consciousness."

    Yeah, I was kind of overzelous with that remark. What I meant to say is when a person's body starts to go limp.

    I don't think they did an actual group experiment with a control group etc. I feel they may have been going with theory and rhetoric and maybe a small control group. This is why I said I'd like to see their findings before I debate it.

    Go away I'm talking to myself
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