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  1. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Apr 2005
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    2,069

    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 3:28pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And now Rickson has mount.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  2. WhiteShark is offline
    WhiteShark's Avatar

    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Sep 2003
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    Atlanta GA
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 3:41pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    FACT: Even his own father called Bullshido on that claim.


    :smile:
    FACT: Tom Kagan is completely immune to sarcasm.
  3. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,378

    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 3:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Yep, not even Gomi's knee to Ralph Gracie's face or Hughes's beating of Royce. Shameless.
    or Frank's :21 sec beat down of Ceasar.........
  4. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Washington State
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    1,721

    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak
    Anyone who's seen a Rickson Gracie MMA match knows that he's not the end all be all to fighting.

    The fact of the matter is he has thousands of die hard fans that rave about him in a fanatical fashion. AKA Bruce Lee syndrome.

    Testimonies say Rickson Gracie is great at jujitsu... awesome... he still boxes with his hands at his waists.

    Glad I posted this, been getting some interesting comments. I do understand how lots of aspects of jiu-jitsu have been neglected such as the self defense portions of it; defenses against armed attackers, etc. That has to do with people wanting to learn more of the ground aspect of it which is the system's strong point. I personally would look to a FMA for the weapon aspects as my research seems to point that those techniques have been applied in pressure situations moreso then the defenses in brazilian jiu-jitsu; but I could be wrong.

    The thing that really gets me is his idea that all you need is "jiu-jitus" or as another person posted on here, "the R3@L Jiu-Jitsu"...lol! We know that if you're standup is weak and a striker has enough grappling ability to keep you from taking him down then no amount of "the R3@L Jiu-Jitsu" is going to help. See Marcus "Conan" Silveira vs Maurice Smith or even more recently Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic vs Hidehiko Yoshida.

    I guess you could say for a theory standpoint that jiu-jitsu is suppose to encorporate all aspects of fighting but then wouldn't that make it MMA!?!?

    One other thing about the interview I loved was him talking about how steriods have an affect on a jiu-jitsu practicioner's ability to win a fight. We all know that's true but the way he was throwing it around in the article seemed like he was using it more as a built in excuse as to why pure jiu-jitsu guys are getting their asses handed to them by more complete fighters.

    It says this interview was performed in 2005, before Hughes vs Gracie but doesn't this seem a lot like foreshadowing. It's like he created an excuse for Royce's loss a year prior. I wonder if he would consider Matt's jiu-jitsu as "the R3@L Jiu-Jitsu"...!
  5. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    New York, NY USA
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    5,602

    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 4:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    FACT: Tom Kagan is completely immune to sarcasm.

    FACT: WhiteShark seems to have been innoculated with the same vaccine. It remains to be seen whether it will achieve full potency.


    :smile:
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  6. MEGALEF is offline

    Still digging on James Brown

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    Jan 2005
    Location
    Lund, Sweden
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    1,333

    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 4:26pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo (1k)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hear some BJJ instructor in Brazil refers to him as "Fiction Gracie"
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Dec 2005
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    Descending into absurdity
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    6,977

    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 4:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While Rickson is at least as much a font for self aggrandizing as the gracies are a font of technique, this bit seems quite honest:
    No, (the idea that technique will always overcome strength) is completely antiquated.
    Those criteria were given when it was jiu-jitsu versus bigger guys, or jiu-jitsu versus boxing, or jiu-jitsu versus wrestling. Nowadays there doesn't exist jiu-jitsu versus nothing. Everyone knows everything, and everybody has their style [e muito vale o individuo].
    Guys are using the drugs and pumping the irons, have enormous resistance and and a modicum of technique.
    The criterion that technique will overcome power is true only if the adversary has no technique, only power. But that doesn't exist anymore. There isn't anyone who doesn't know nothing anymore [everyone knows something].
    Which of course would seem somewhat contradictory with his comments that bjj is all you need.
    Last edited by UpaLumpa; 7/06/2006 4:46pm at .
  8. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Washington State
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 5:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    While Rickson is at least as much a font for self aggrandizing as the gracies are a font of technique, this bit seems quite honest:

    Which of course would seem somewhat contradictory with his comments that bjj is all you need.

    Very true. He is right about pumping iron and the use of steriods. But then again, no matter what martial art you practice. You take someone who is good and put them on 'roids then you are going to have a beast.

    His comments also proved something about the system, when it comes to striking arts and in some cases other grappling arts it is effective. However once you learn enough technique to keep off your back and out of submissions then you keep the fight on your terms and not the jiu-jitsu stylist's terms. If that's the case then the striker will win, which means the jiu-jitsu player will then not only need to know how to better take and keep his opponent down and submit them but also to be able and stay in the fight long enough to deal with the striker's er, strikes. This is how modern MMA began to evolve to what it is today. It has nothing to do with not being as good as you should be in jiu-jitsu but understanding fighting enough to know that being a one dimensional fighter will get you beat down. That's like those people who only know striking and get beat by a grappler saying that maybe if their boxing or kickboxing was "better" or "more complete" that they don't need anything else. Rickson would laugh in your face if you told him this yet we are suppose to take what he is saying, which is exactly the same thing but reversed for grapplers over stikers.

    I think the main problem here has to do with the time he was raised in. He grew up in a time where outside of Brazil, the Gracie myth was still legend. Also he was in his later years when; at least here in the states, started hearing about his and the Gracie legends. Things now have evolved in such a time frame that he is older and he can use age as the perfect excuse to not put into practice the things he talks about. If MMA in America would started ealier, taken off sooner, and not had the drop off period because of regulations that it had we probably would be seeing Rickson eating the same humble pie that his brother had to endure. Nothing against Royce but he found out the hard way what happens when you aren't up to date on all aspects of the fight game.
  9. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Descending into absurdity
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 5:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually I was focusing on the parts I had, you know, bolded.
    Otherwise, yes.
  10. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 5:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Actually I was focusing on the parts I had, you know, bolded.
    Otherwise, yes.
    Ah, that's what those are...bold letters!

    With regards to the comments in bold; if the idea that pure technique won't work on someone with raw power and some technique then what would be the solution? He seems to advicate having "better" technique using "real jiu-jitsu" but at his own admission this will not work.
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