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  1. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2005
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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 12:15pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I grapple. Jujutsu/Judo/Sombo, but I'm not incredibly experienced. I'll do some more homework on the mount.
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 12:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about instead of doing homework you train?
  3. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 12:19pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's what I meant, smartass. Do the assigned exercises, but when it comes to randori, focus on mount and get more coaching.
  4. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 12:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you want some math problems to work on?
    There is a train leaving Los Angeles at 55 mph.
    One hour later a train leaves St. Louis and is traveling at 53 miles an hour.
    Which train's mount is easier to escape?
  5. Samfoo is offline
    Samfoo's Avatar

    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 2:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno
    I've got to agree with Drew here, if I've got side control, I'll almost never try to go for mount. I'll kick it over to kesa, and drive forward with my legs, putting pressure on their ribs. If I'm really feeling mean spirited I'll also neck crank them a little too. Without fail they will flail and hand me something to attack.
    A couple things here. First, I would rather have mount than side control in most cases. For me mount takes much less energy to hold than side control. I generally feel I have more realistic attacking options from mount, even against bigger opponents. I'm more likely to be able to take the back from mount than I am from side control. Finally, it's a better position to be in, in a real fight, and earns more points in competition.

    Second, (somewhat off topic) I generally don't transition to Kesagatame in most cases. Why? Because counters to head locks are vicious (you generally get your back taken). And even though I'm a quick guy, I feel like it's not worth the risk. Besides, Kesa actually limits my submissions and trasitions because I have to be really cautious about giving up my back. Finally I'm not a very big guy, so holding kesa on a bigger guy (especially if he has a loose gi) is harder for me.

    Third, neck cranking isn't nice when training. Don't do it ;-)

    I agree with Upa on of his points about escaping mount, a single upa attempt is unlikely to yield results against anyone other than a white belt. You should always be thinking ahead for your mount escapes.

    A good mount is indeed a frightening thing to be under. When I'm under a brown belt or black belt mount I generally feel like no matter what I do I get in a worse position, and eventually submitted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  6. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Orlando, Florida
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 2:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpaladin
    The feet on the hips thing is something I've seen in Bravo's book to break a bear hug from the guy underneath. I'm a heavy guy, so I tend to stick with the basic "get your legs under the armpits" technique.
    back on point.....I believe this mount position is called the "Monkey Mount" by Bravo. Similar to the bear hug break I use it to push forward on the arms to get them above the head and pick one to submit with. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, but it is a pretty secure position if you remain loose.
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 2:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samfoo
    Second, (somewhat off topic) I generally don't transition to Kesagatame in most cases. Why? Because counters to head locks are vicious (you generally get your back taken). And even though I'm a quick guy, I feel like it's not worth the risk. Besides, Kesa actually limits my submissions and trasitions because I have to be really cautious about giving up my back. Finally I'm not a very big guy, so holding kesa on a bigger guy (especially if he has a loose gi) is harder for me.
    Kuzure kesa gatame has been far more useful for me, though I don't go for a lot of subs off of side. I mainly use it to get their arm out from under me taking away their fulcrum for dumping me while I work to take mount.
  8. Samfoo is offline
    Samfoo's Avatar

    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 2:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Kuzure kesa gatame has been far more useful for me, though I don't go for a lot of subs off of side. I mainly use it to get their arm out from under me taking away their fulcrum for dumping me while I work to take mount.
    When I do that, I usually do the same thing, except underhook the far arm instead of wrapping the head. Safer, and almost as effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  9. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 2:50pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's what the "kuzure" in kuzure kesa gatame means -- that you've got the underhook on the far arm. Literally, it means something like "broken" as in "broken scarf hold" or "modified scarf hold".
    Last edited by Aesopian; 7/10/2006 3:07pm at .
  10. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2006 3:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    That's what the "kuzure" in kuzure kesa gatame means -- that you've got the underhook on the far arm. Literally, it means something like "broken" as "broken scarf hold" or "modified scarf hold".
    Ahhh gotcha. Doh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
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