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  1. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:06pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    I'm going with the Boxing hands being better by sheer weight of attrition. Unlike some sports, where it's still fun if you suck, such as Basketball, soccer, etc, boxing is no fun if you have slow hands. you can get aorund having slow hands in MT, because you have other weapons. I saw an old Danny Steele fight and his record was 27-2-1, with no knockouts. He just keptl eg kicking the guy, and that worked for him for quite awhile. Now some boxers can get away with the punch and clinch, but they wont have long carreers, as they are dull to watch. I don't believe it is just training the hands alone. It would be nice, if through sheer force of will, you could make your hands fast, but alot of times it is talent. Fast punchers chew up slow punchers, and they leave, unless they are really toough and stupid, and become the perrennial oppponent, that tunes up other fighters. I'm not saying that boxers are better fighters, just better punchers.
    I may not understand White's initial point. However, if I do then you seem to have missed it. No one would question who is the better boxer. A boxer is the better boxer. In boxing terms, the boxer has the better hands. White's point (if I understood correctly) was that the rules alone are too different to compare the hands aspect of each. I guess the ultimate question would be could a boxer hold his own in a Thai ring or would the rules alone (for arguement sake say he knows how to atleast check a leg kick) force him to change from his usual boxing style. Would he be able to apply the same techniques boxing insists are the correct way to strike in that situation? My initial idea is, no he would not. There would have to be things he would have to change to deal with the kicks, elbows, knees and actual clinching. The changes he would have to make (if you think there are any) are what need to be kept in mind when a boxer critiques a MT guy.
    Last edited by Shaolinz; 7/05/2006 10:13pm at .
  2. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:12pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you can get away with a lot more bob and weave stuff in muay thai then people commonly think. I go mike tyson on people in muay thai sparring all the time, When you're watching in third person it's easy to sit back and say "oh, you could just knee or kick them there" but it seems to me that you can get away with it much more often then not. Ideally You're slipping punches that they're throwing because they expect to be hitting you with them, people dont usually punch and knee at the same time.

    The only times i've really had problems is sparring with someone way out of my league(marvin perry) who could hold his kicks like half cocked till I finished my slip and then he'd bring them down on top of me.

    It didnt help that my left eye was swollen completely shut from my MMA fight the night before so I couldnt really see his leg on that side anyways.

    I think it needs to be mitigated somewhat for a muay thai setting, it makes bending at the waist or getting to deep a lot more dangerous but you can still get away with that kind of stuff in moderation if you keep your hips under you like you really should be doing anyways. (Of course people don't always do what they should be doing, myself included.)
  3. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:23pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly i think a lot of muay thai people try and take little jabs at boxing and to some degree make excuses for their usually at least somewhat inferior hand work. I don't think the two have to be nearly as differant as people try and make them out to be, I tend to play both pretty similair in sparring as far as stance and movement goes, only being more careful with really deep slipping muay thai.
  4. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:31pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, shaolinz, I mean boxers have a better variety of hand strikes, angles and pure punching power. Having seen En Fairtex get school by a western Boxer,in San Francisco, while he schools every white guy wanna be Muay Thai guy at strike force, would be enough. Knowing boxers that have sparred with MT guys and said- those kicks hurt- ie, they let them kick while they boxed. I've been watching tons of Mauy Thai lately, which I enjoy, but I see few fighters, except Dekkers and Coban, who have outstanding punching. Their punching games seems to be 1-2 kick 1 kick 1-2 kick., grab, then knee. The clinch in these Lumpini matchs seems to be complicitory- almost a let's grab each other and see who can take more punishment. That's my main problem with MT, is that it is not always smart fighting- hit without getting hit- but more like, lets just blast each other and see who falls first. Now don't get me wrong, i like watching them blast each other, but I don't see it as a smart thing to do.
  5. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:39pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    but I see few fighters, except Dekkers and Coban, who have outstanding punching. Their punching games seems to be 1-2 kick 1 kick 1-2 kick., grab, then knee.
    Alot of MT people do tend to ignore punching to atleast some degree. I'm guilty of it. I usually tend to use punchs to set up a knee or kick or like I said before I use hooks generally to get a clinch. I've even heard MT guys tell me when I ask about the mechanics of a punch, "MT generally is weak in punching, don't worry about it just throw the punch". Thankfully they aren't my instructors.
  6. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:56pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The ultimate, would to be good at both, and both rule sets, and good at what each one is known for- not just a good boxer doing MT, etc. I belive, the only way to do that is to go to a hard core gym of either style. If you're going to box, go to a boxing gym for a while, where you have all the kids from the hood to spar with. Same goes for the boxer who wants to cross train- he should go do it with some Thai's if at all possible, or, even better, go to Thailand. I'm old as dirt, so it's out for me, but all you young kids should go over their and train, at a farang friendly gym. I said train- I'd hold off on the matchs for awhile.There seems to be two styles of MT in Thailand- one where they score points on each other, and the other where they try to kill the foreigner. Just my 2 cents, which is all it's worth.
  7. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 11:14pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shaolinz is starting to learn. My opinion is that Boxers are better boxers but not necasarily better punchers for fighting Muay Thai. I've had training in both punching styles and the main thing I think Boxing does better is ring control and movement patterns.

    Mostly I want other people to weigh in on that.
  8. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 2:03am

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my boxing training has definitely had a much stronger focus on balance, footwork and ring movement than my thai boxing class. Really that whole part of my game comes from my boxing. Of course, my current thai boxing school doesn't have a boxing ring so it makes the whole "ring movement/ring control" thing harder to work.
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  9. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 7:21am

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cool thread.

    I have nothing to add since my only MT experiance was cardio kickboxing. question, does MT commonly work on slipping punches as much as boxing?

    I've had training in both punching styles and the main thing I think Boxing does better is ring control and movement patterns.
    No flying knees or long range kicks in boxing so you have to be more tactical.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  10. Draven is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 7:30am


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJon
    Cool thread.
    question, does MT commonly work on slipping punches as much as boxing?
    Of course not.
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