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  1. KaraokeKarateka is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 4:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shito-ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Just curious, did Sergei explain how to strengthen that "cross" structure at all?
    I take it the basic training also consisted of lots of pushups and squats??
    No, he didn't single out any particular exercises for that. Sergei left most of the physical conditioning work for the students to do themselves outside of the training. We did finish up each session with a few pushups and squats (5 sets of 10 of various pushups followed by 5 sets of 10 of various kinds of jump squats).

    The "connective strength" thing you are talking about sounds very interesting. My brother is a power lifter and always talks about core strength and the need to do squats - do these two concepts have anything in common? I'd like to see the exercises you use to train. PM inbound. EDIT: No it's not. I can't send PMs (no permission?).

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyDaHedgehog
    And I fail to see how the body mechanics used by a skilled martial arts would be simple enough to be described by an Orthodox cross, but then I don't posess those body mechanics. Why you would even use an obtuse metaphor like that instead of using plain simple English (or Russian) is beyond me.
    The Orthodox cross metaphor was used by Sergei to describe posture and movement. Actually it made a lot of sense.
    Last edited by KaraokeKarateka; 7/05/2006 4:58pm at .
  2. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 4:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    These strength exercises interest me. How would you say the strength developed is different from that developed with free weights ? is it that different muscles are being worked ?
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  3. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 5:03pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm pretty sure there's different muscles surrounding the spine that're being worked.
    I tried over doing it one time and felt something spasm out of control "inside", which floored me. Took me a couple days to recover from that.

    Plus the "intent" used to work the muscles is different, causing them to be developed in a different way.

    If you ask me, while free weights are ok (if you know how to use them) bench pressing is one of the worst things an MAist can do to develop his body.

    I'm working on an article on this stuff so I'll be needing proofreaders at some time. Feel free to PM me if you want a sneak peak (This goes for everyone reading this thread).
  4. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 5:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    I'm pretty sure there's different muscles surrounding the spine that're being worked.
    I tried over doing it one time and felt something spasm out of control "inside", which floored me. Took me a couple days to recover from that.
    Sounds odd.

    Plus the "intent" used to work the muscles is different, causing them to be developed in a different way
    Are we talking about cadence here ? the pattern/speed of relaxing contracting ?
    Do you exercise to develop 'standard' conditioning too (cardio endurance, basic strength in major muscle groups), or does it focus on these specialised exercises for core/interal musculature ?
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  5. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 5:30pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Sounds odd.



    Are we talking about cadence here ? the pattern/speed of relaxing contracting ?
    Do you exercise to develop 'standard' conditioning too (cardio endurance, basic strength in major muscle groups), or does it focus on these specialised exercises for core/interal musculature ?

    Most people train for "strength".
    In this case you're training to stay "balanced" for lack of a better term.
    Might sound like a subtle difference, but it isn't.
    Muscle development is directly influenced by these exercises and develop in a different manner. I realize that muscles can only contract or relax, so I'm not saying that they act in a manner outside the laws of physiology, so my best guess is that the cadence you're talking about is affected as a result.

    It's not something you're aware of though.

    I don't do any cardio, but since the efficiency of movement is increased, by like, a lot (for lack of a better term), my cardio seems to be on par, if not sometimes better than the people I roll with, who definitely have better cardio than me.

    Short answer, yes core muscles, and the way they're linked to the spine and connect to the rest of the body are worked directly.

    PS

    Shame you couldn't make it to the London mini-class back in Feburary.
    I'm pretty sure there was a lot you could've gotten out of it.
    Concepts are similar to what asshats refer to as the r3al ta1ch1. :icon_comp
    Last edited by Upyu; 7/05/2006 5:34pm at .
  6. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 9:32pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Most people train for "strength".
    In this case you're training to stay "balanced" for lack of a better term.
    Might sound like a subtle difference, but it isn't.
    Muscle development is directly influenced by these exercises and develop in a different manner. I realize that muscles can only contract or relax, so I'm not saying that they act in a manner outside the laws of physiology, so my best guess is that the cadence you're talking about is affected as a result.

    It's not something you're aware of though.

    I don't do any cardio, but since the efficiency of movement is increased, by like, a lot (for lack of a better term), my cardio seems to be on par, if not sometimes better than the people I roll with, who definitely have better cardio than me.

    Short answer, yes core muscles, and the way they're linked to the spine and connect to the rest of the body are worked directly.

    PS

    Shame you couldn't make it to the London mini-class back in Feburary.
    I'm pretty sure there was a lot you could've gotten out of it.
    Concepts are similar to what asshats refer to as the r3al ta1ch1. :icon_comp
    So you're doing strongman-type stuff to work overall coordination? I'm seeing some parallells between what you're talking about and some of the stuff in a different thread.
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  7. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 11:16pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It might be strong man type stuff, I'll have to take a look at the thread (my gut reaction is no we're not). ^^;
  8. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 12:19am


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KaraokeKarateka
    I'd like to see the exercises you use to train. PM inbound. EDIT: No it's not. I can't send PMs (no permission?).



    The Orthodox cross metaphor was used by Sergei to describe posture and movement. Actually it made a lot of sense.
    Send me mail at foshizzlepizzle At hotmail d0T com
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  9. sakuyarules is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 10:08pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai, San Soo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry to bump an old thread, but I was wondering if you know anything about an RMA style called Machatz. There is a school near my house that teaches it, it's suposed to be a combination of MT, BJJ, Kadochnikov, kung fu san soo, and an israeli survival style of fighting. The master is Shlomo Kapelnikov, if that makes any difference. I was wondering if this is a McDojo style, or if it's supposed to be good, something along those lines.

    A short description/info taken from the flyer:
    This system is a 5 family system; they are: striking, balance (throws, takedowns, joint/limb locks), external power ("using proper body weight and movement to deliver the maximum potential power of a strike"), and internal power (psycology and moral issues).

    The flyer also mentions that they have a different view on the belt system "We don't require a person to devote at least four years of their life to become a black belt. A black belt can be achieved in as little as six months. We do not withhold any knowledge from the student. In addition to the basic moves and principles of Machatz, we teach our students all the movements of the upper belts in the early months of training. Therefore, within a short period of time the student develops the knowledge and udnerstanding of an experienced Martial Artist."

    I had heard that this was one sign of a McDojo, but I'm not sure if it is in this case, and I like the idea of learning everything from the beginning (I know it takes time to learn the basics and things of that sort, but it is also nice to be given at least a taste of what is to come :D).

    The website that the flyer gives is the kadochnikov.org site (I only mention this because you said that the site was headed by that one person Aleski didn't like), but doesn't have a site of it's own for the specific dojo.

    So I was wondering if you had any information on Machatz. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by sakuyarules; 9/06/2007 11:15pm at .
  10. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 11:13pm

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     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    tackles of all kinds done by wrestlers of your same weight stop working against you, you're more stable and can even strike someone with a fair amount of damage from the "bottom" of a mount ;) Overall your opponent "feels" you are much stronger than your actual build/weight

    But that's only the first stage.

    Like I said, this stuff needs to be felt to be believed.
    I had only about 5 months college judo about 3 years ago(ground exp since then), but I was able to walk into Rickson's Axis BJJ school here and not only not tapout, but earn myself a couple of tapouts from their blues and even one purple, so I know this stuff works ;)
    2006 was not a good year.


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