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  1. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 1:39pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I said Systema, as I've observed, is effective, would you call me a liar?
    Are you (saying that)?
  2. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 1:47pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dont take my word for it go and train with the top Russians and find out for yourself.
    First of all, if systema practicioners are making the claims, it is up to them to prove them, not everyone else to disprove them. Second, how realistic is it to expect me, in WA, to "go and train with the top russians"? I'd say, not very. And I'd also say that making an unrealistic demand to prove the effectiveness of one's style is a staple of bullshido. It is a purposeful way of avoiding having to actually prove anything, since you know most people can't or won't meet those unrealistic demands. I haven't been following this thread, other than reading Omega's initial post and just happening to catch your comment on faith. But, whether systema is bullshido or not, if all you have to offer is "go and train with the top Russians", then that is a red flag at the least.
  3. Schwarde is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 4:34am


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfoolss
    Yes, we're all wondering why you would adopt that rationale...Style: Shotokan/Systema/JJJ
    I must not feed the trolls.. I must not feed the trolls.... I must not feed the trolls
  4. Schwarde is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 6:39am


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfoolss
    Yes, we're all wondering why you would adopt that rationale...Style: Shotokan/Systema/JJJ
    I can't believe I'm bothering with you numpties.. but here goes.

    Nothing worth saying has been said in this discussion in pages. Kungfools and Kitty Killer have their opinions and they are welcome to them. But the two of you should get a life - you both post on Systema more than any Systema practicioner. Kitty Killer likes Youtube and funny videos - ok, but it doesn't add anything to the discourse. Kungy likes to quote people, but rarely if ever has anything original or insightful to say.

    Here's what it has taken over 90 pages to say. Some of you think Systema is a crock - some of us like it. It will not go beyond this. You are not willing to try Systema and give a rational evaluation of it, so your claims of Bullshido will only ever be claims. Those members of the board that have tried Systema aren't as quick to rubbish it. Even Omega has admittred there is some value in Systema based on a review of a number of DVDs. It may not be to his taste, but you can't please all the people all the time.

    The hackneyed get in the ring argument has been done to death as well. We don't train for MMA. IF we did it would look like MMA - that's because most Systema schools incorporate other styles and techniques into what is essentially a methodology rather than a list of prescribed techniques. The loopy strikes are an option, not the only option.

    For the one or two people that may follow this discussion with anything passing for interest rather than simply seeking an opportunity to show their keyboard warrior skills I'd be more than willing to enter into a conversation but sadly we've gone well beyond the point when there was any rational discourse and have descended into a pissing contest.

    Oh, and Kungy if you are really that concerned with combating cults in the martial arts why don't you start closer to home?
    http://www.scars.com/SCARS/_knights/knightsMain.jsp
  5. systemavin is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 7:40am


     Style: Systema/ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair, comment but it is easy, anyone can travel to Toronto or Moscow. And it is well worth the time and money. I am a licensed Close Protection Officer, trained by ex British Special Forces. You will be surprised how many good peole rate systema, even if they dont train in it. There is some useful stuff in it, what else is there to be said. I respect MMA and understand the reality of fighting, and what it takes to be good. Systema is different and unusual, not for everyone, big deal. I respect your opnion, but I reccomend trying it out, but like anything pick who you train with carefully.
    Respect

    Vinny
  6. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 7:42am

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     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    Are you (saying that)?
    Yes. I train in the same gym as a Systema group, on Vancouver Island. Some of their drills are retarded, IMO, but they don't deserve the reputation they get, as far as I can tell. Their training does involve resisting opponents. They do spar. Just in odd ways. The instructor and the class didn't strike me as Mcdojo or Bullshidoish...

    So, while Systema may not be the greatest, it is not like WC or TKD, at least not at the gym I go to, and the whole thread is mildly retarded.

    Really, I think, the onus is on YOU to prove others ineffective. Do challenge matches. Dojo invasions. Or STFU.
  7. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 12:01pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes.
    LIAR!!!!

    I train in the same gym as a Systema group, on Vancouver Island. Some of their drills are retarded, IMO, but they don't deserve the reputation they get, as far as I can tell. Their training does involve resisting opponents. They do spar. Just in odd ways. The instructor and the class didn't strike me as Mcdojo or Bullshidoish...
    This seems to jive with Omega’s account. And I am willing to accept Omega’s account. Why? Because Omega has verifiable credentials as an MA instructor and school owner, pro fighter, and has shown himself to be a long time poster here who is reasonable and fair in his reviews. I’ll take his word over someone like systemavin’s any day (no offense).

    So, while Systema may not be the greatest, it is not like WC or TKD, at least not at the gym I go to, and the whole thread is mildly retarded.
    I don’t follow Kungfools’ postings, so aside from reading the initial couple posts I’ve largely ignored this thread. The only reason I’m posting in it now is because I just happened to decide to check in and see what all the fuss was about shortly after systemavin made his post asking people here to “just accept” that systema is good.

    Really, I think, the onus is on YOU to prove others ineffective. Do challenge matches. Dojo invasions. Or STFU.
    Well, you’re wrong. The onus is always on the person making claims to back them up. Any one criticizing should always be willing to step up to the plate, no doubt, but that’s not what we are talking about here.
  8. systemavin is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 2:40pm


     Style: Systema/ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No offence taken Matt. Omega has very good credentials. I thought his assessment was very fair, but he strikes me as somone who has humility. I aint gonna loose any sleep over it. Like I said there is some good stuff in it, certainly given me some food for thought especially on the striking front. Those guys with a good background would benefit from training in it, or exposed to it and systema would be better for it.
    I just find some of the comments made on here laughable at times, from Systema and non Systema people alike. I found the training in Moscow very benefical, I even use some of the drills with professional athletes, that I work with. Some people will just never be convinced.
  9. rw4th is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 8:30pm


     Style: BJJ,MT,RBSD (on hiatus)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you hear people say things like “you have to experience it yourself” without anybody being able to provide any kind of cogent explanation as to why and how something works or is good for you, you have a clear indicator of that a cult mentality is present.

    I’ve seen some Systema and knew a few people that were into it. It’s has some good parts to it, but also a hell of a lot of crap, and when I see the type of **** the top Russians do on those videos, I can’t help but think that the people running the system have lost touch with reality. I was in the Bujinkan for almost 10 years and spent enough time doing the soft flowy crap that Vasilev et. al like to demonstrate to know it has no application in reality other then to dazzle the ignorant masses.

    While some people may enjoy Systema the same way people enjoy Aikido and Tai Chi (and it’s their right to do so), I call bullshit when people refer to it as some kind of ultimate combat art.

    So, if what’s on those crappy YouTube videos is not representative of YOUR Systema, lets see a video of what is. Show us how you train, show us how you spar, show us Aliveness, and I’m pretty sure most reasonable people here will shut up.
  10. systemavin is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 3:24pm


     Style: Systema/ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt, if I am going to produce any vids, it will be boxing ones. I will leave any new systema video clips to those who have been training in it longer than I, and in particular the Russians. Systema is still relatively new to the west and perhaps this is part of its image problem. There is no ultimate combat martial art, only a combat martial artist. This comes with natural ability hard work and exposure to good training and a will to survive. For an art to be effective it has to move with the times and be alive and constantly evolving. I have trained with people who said did dont like krav maga, but in the same breath will use some of its training methods or drills. That makes sense to me, take what you think is useful, and adapt it to your own training methods. How can anyone improve, without exposure to methods or arts or even training partners. I agree some of those you tubes clips are crap, and I have let people in the systema community know that. You can believe or not believe what I have to say, but the striking part of systema is interesting and effective. I can explain how that works if you want, good knowledge of human body, certain delivery method of the strike, (no tension in the shoulders, angle of the strike, and use of certain parts of the fist, to effect a certain reaction from the person. Simple really but you need someone to show you how to do it. Which is why you have to try it in person with a good instructor.

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