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  1. TheWarriorman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 2:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it possible that you don't know how to read quite properly? Otherwise, you'd probably know that I am neither "an advocate of this BS" nor swooping in to defend anything. I'm merely asking questions, and seeing who answers them and how.

    Regarding videos of Vasiliev's capacity to disarm multiple attackers surrounding him, I don't think you can compare the actions of a man who has a lifetime of active duty in the Special Operations Unit with that of a kid who trained for a few years under him in a civilian atmosphere. No one, in my understanding, can do what Vasiliev can do. That's what makes him so particular.

    And I never really invited anybody to come to any school. I did say, however, that people who are arrogantly convinced of their own greatness - enough so as to blow smoke up their own ass on an internet forum - should clearly be eager to demonstrate it to the world and be the first to claim a total "owning" of Vasiliev or Ryabko in a martial confrontation settings. Hence my suggestion to go see the men in person. And bring a video camera too, just in case.

    Finally, thanks for making clear your reasons for repeatedly refusing to have a one-on-one "field test" against Vasiliev or Ryabko. Clearly, no one would want for your "world of fantasy to come tumbling down", since that is apparently what happens when you discover that there are other methods that work besides your gospel. I will, in fact, follow your request that I "accept this truth of life" in regards to the fact that you've run out of arguments. I believe this to be the single truest statement you've made so far, and I can respect that.
  2. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 2:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarriorman
    Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it possible that you don't know how to read quite properly? Otherwise, you'd probably know that I am neither "an advocate of this BS" nor swooping in to defend anything. I'm merely asking questions, and seeing who answers them and how.
    Ah, I see. So, you're sort of like a DdlR clone then. Wonderful. The more nutballs the better.

    Regarding videos of Vasiliev's capacity to disarm multiple attackers surrounding him, I don't think you can compare the actions of a man who has a lifetime of active duty in the Special Operations Unit with that of a kid who trained for a few years under him in a civilian atmosphere.
    Then what was he doing training others in Vlads system if he himself could not grasp the concepts? Seems a bit odd wouldn't you say?

    No one, in my understanding, can do what Vasiliev can do. That's what makes him so particular.
    Shocking. What then is the point of Vlad selling his videos to the public and having folks attend his seminars? If what you state is true, then what purpose would it serve to learn Vlads methods if only he is able to implement them? That makes absolutely no sense.

    And I never really invited anybody to come to any school. I did say, however, that people who are arrogantly convinced of their own greatness - enough so as to blow smoke up their own ass on an internet forum - should clearly be eager to demonstrate it to the world and be the first to claim a total "owning" of Vasiliev or Ryabko in a martial confrontation settings. Hence my suggestion to go see the men in person. And bring a video camera too, just in case.
    Query - who made such a statement of "owning" them? Produce the posts. As far as I can recall, we continue to mock them and their suicidal methodology. I especially love the video highlights. Great comedy.

    Finally, thanks for making clear your reasons for repeatedly refusing to have a one-on-one "field test" against Vasiliev or Ryabko. Clearly, no one would want for your "world of fantasy to come tumbling down", since that is apparently what happens when you discover that there are other methods that work besides your gospel.
    There we go with the challenges again. If you guys are so eager for duels, I hear Matt Thornton loves these sorts of things. However, we both know that will never happen will it.

    I will, in fact, follow your request that I "accept this truth of life" in regards to the fact that you've run out of arguments. I believe this to be the single truest statement you've made so far, and I can respect that.
    Well, then you have nothing to fear from me then, right? I hope you sleep better. :lol:
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  3. TheWarriorman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 2:53am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Way to prove you've not run out of arguments, Kungfoolss... Heh. Since I'm going to bed to sleep so well, I'll at least reply to your latest assertions, if for no other reason than for the enjoyment of others.

    According to your understanding of martial arts, a student should be able to equal his teacher's skill within how many months? How many before he surpasses him? Seems strange that you would expect a kid to equal the skill level of a Special Op like that. Who's assimilated Gracie's skills after a few months of training with him? Who mastered him not long after that?... Oops, sorry that question was easy. The answer's Matt Hughes, and he didn't even need to train with him to do it.

    Again, for your next paragraph, you reprise this apparent lack of comprehension at the concept of the teacher's skills greatly surpassing that of the people who sit on the couch and watch videos. That's what's pretty shocking, in my view.

    Mocking something endlessly (and pretty repetitively, too) and not having the guts to step up and prove your ridicule is warranted when the chance is offered? That's serious Keyboard Strength territory right there.

    Finally, your lack of comprehension of written English astonishes me yet again. How you can derive a challenge from a statement denoting how I understand your reasons for *refusing a challenge* (a little tongue-in-cheek, I must admit - and clarify, since apparently reading isn't your strong suit - but I didn't like your blatant disregard for civility, so we probably got off on the wrong foot... apologies to all other decent readers on this one) is beyond me, but further serves to illustrate my point.

    It's okay to disagree, Kungfoolss, but take a hint from OnceLost. The man has been able to have a highly interesting discussion with those who favor Systema and myself before your return. Why doesn't this appear to be possible with you?
  4. kiai_killer is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 6:29am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarriorman
    According to your understanding of martial arts, a student should be able to equal his teacher's skill within how many months? How many before he surpasses him? Seems strange that you would expect a kid to equal the skill level of a Special Op like that. Who's assimilated Gracie's skills after a few months of training with him? Who mastered him not long after that?... Oops, sorry that question was easy. The answer's Matt Hughes, and he didn't even need to train with him to do it.
    Wasn't the guy you are now refering to as 'a kid' (for purposes of playing down his systema skills, I assume) a fully trained instructor? Did he only train with Vlad for a few months? If they hand out instructor qualifications that easily then Systema is even more BS than I thought.
    Straight punches make you go blind. More damage is done to a criminals nervous system when they are struck. Strikes that make you stronger. All this and more systema douchebaggery:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eak-m2iwI7Q

    NEW BONUS REEL, feat RobG at it again! lol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJDnMDJVWmQ
  5. Mole5000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 7:08am


     Style: Some time ago: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And lets be clear here. We are not doubting Vlad's ability to kick arse and take names. What we are doubting is the effectiveness of the material that he teaches, and gets taught and propogated by others under the banner of Systema.
  6. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 7:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mole5000
    And lets be clear here. We are not doubting Vlad's ability to kick arse and take names.
    Why aren't we doubting that again?
  7. Mole5000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 9:06am


     Style: Some time ago: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    Why aren't we doubting that again?
    Becasue it's irrelevent to the argument. By not bringing Vlad's ability as a fighter into question we eliminate the tedious and lame "well why don't you spar with Vlad, he'll do you good" counter argument.
  8. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 9:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mole5000
    Becasue it's irrelevent to the argument. By not bringing Vlad's ability as a fighter into question we eliminate the tedious and lame "well why don't you spar with Vlad, he'll do you good" counter argument.
    Then we're not contesting it. We might still doubt it.

    My original post was an attempt to draw out some video of Vlad actually free sparring or fighting, rather than doing demos. Anyone got such a thing?
  9. TheWarriorman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 2:20pm

    Bullshido Newbie
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kiai_Killer, the man who was murdered wasn't even 30. So he really was a kid, and as a civilian, did not have Vasiliev's wealth of experience in dealing with group muggings at gun- and knifepoint.

    Besides, making assumptions on how a situation like that goes down is really ridiculous. Who's to say wether he even got a look at the persons who killed him? I don't care what martial art you practice, if someone shoots you in the back without warning, there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Compound that with, in this case, the desire to protect a friend that did not have any skills, and the variables make the situation impossible to accurately depict. I would hope that reasonable human beings would not let their inherent distrust of a martial art cloud their judgement regarding a real-life tragedy.

    Regarding not contesting Vasiliev's skills, this is what I don't understand. If your contention, then, is that some of his students are not great fighters, then I'm sure no one would argue with you. This happens in every style that I know of, and is merely due to the fact that A) not everyone has the same aptitudes towards physical conditioning and B) not everyone even trains in martial arts for combative purposes. Therefore, you will certainly get some misguided soul wanting to prove they're better when insulted, without actually having the skill necessary to do so against a more experienced opponent.

    The reason why I brought up training with Vasiliev himself is because every time I've heard from a dissenter who actually got to "throw down" (no pun intended) with him, they've come out of it saying they understand Systema better. Not necessarily embrace it, mind you, but certainly respect that certain people may find what they're looking for in the unorthodox (when compared to traditional Asian methods) training.
  10. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 9:48pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Well you see I have this thing called a life ... I kinda passed up my travel time to go to a throwdown ... and then this weekend I am going to a music festival . Both events outweigh my interest in Systema .

    Don't worry though I should have atleast five more years left in life ... I hope to get around to it one day .

    I mean it's not really all that important to me , if I want to play and have a highly unusual pedagogical method which can be very difficult to explain even to experienced MAists. By partaking in a series of improvised challenges based on a defined set of tactics and movement skills. There is very, very little technique drilling and no specific curriculum. And learn an art that is based on experimentation through improvised, freestyle exercises, which are initially practiced very slowly and with minimal resistance, and then with greater speed, force and realism as the student gains more experience.
    I wouldn't train , instead I would have drunken play fights and wrassling with the good ole boys . But to be honest sometimes my training falls under this catagory anyway ... and those are the nights I wished I had known we weren't going to be training ... becouse I wouldn't have shown up .
    It’s not surprising the significance of your post seems to be lost on all the systema cultists here. Not terribly witty are they.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

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