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  1. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:18pm

    Join us... or die
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiai_killer
    After I posted the strikes clips in my sig, a flock of systema zealots has invaded my comments section at youtube (specifically http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJDnMDJVWmQ ), calling me a liar, saying that I heavily edited the clips to misrepresent them
    Other than to drive home the point of stupidity in systema using RobG as the example, I didn't see any editing that would denote spin.

    and that I have a hidden agenda, etc.
    What's hidden? It's all out in the open, we're here to ridicule systema.

    They are also saying that they have never made no-touch claims.
    RobG, made the claim on a systema forum as I have cited often. He threw a guy down a flight of stairs without ever touching the man. Did folks notice he won't make the same claims here? It's because RobG knows he'd never get away with spouting crap like he does at a systema forum.

    So if KFS is obsessed, we need a new word for those guys, they will fly in the face of logic to defend their "art".
    I personally like 'retard.'
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  2. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:40pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFu
    I just saw the poo-storm. Oh your URL needs the ")" taken out at the end. Anyway, they do seem a bit insane . . why are they on YouTube instead of training? At leaste KFS goes away and trains(?) sometimes . . . .
    Speaking of training, I'm always amused by the claims of "fun" systema wackos have during their workouts. Whenever I train, I've never regarded what I do as fun. I take it seriously. You'll find this mindset prevalent in any true adult system.

    When we see systema workout videos, the participants always have looks of glee and mirth plastered on their faces like a bunch of 5-year-olds. This I believe gives an insight to the level of maturity and overall value of their belief structure.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  3. sui generis is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2006 4:15am


     Style: PersonalDefenseReadiness

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Little sidenote to support KFS cult-theory:

    in their own private funny-farm (i.e. forum), the systemaniacs coined the phrase, how systema is a faith based martial art.
    So you just have to believe in it without any signs of real proof ... just like the average cult of your choice ;)
  4. MrMcFu is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2006 4:35am

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    Quote Originally Posted by sui generis
    Little sidenote to support KFS cult-theory:

    in their own private funny-farm (i.e. forum), the systemaniacs coined the phrase, how systema is a faith based martial art.
    So you just have to believe in it without any signs of real proof ... just like the average cult of your choice ;)
    Do you have a link to this, or does private mean password protected? How did you find out?
  5. sui generis is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2006 5:05am


     Style: PersonalDefenseReadiness

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    @ MrMcFu:

    I know it, since I am an ex-systemaniac who somehow managed to pull his head out of his ass.
    In my old days, I read every existant systema forum and stumbeled over that term.

    But if you go to the forum at russianmartialart.com and search for faith based martial art you will get some results, for example like this:

    "The Systema operating system as taught by Mikhail and Vladimir is a faith-based operating system. "
  6. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2006 2:39pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by sui generis
    @ MrMcFu:

    I know it, since I am an ex-systemaniac who somehow managed to pull his head out of his ass.
    In my old days, I read every existant systema forum and stumbeled over that term.

    But if you go to the forum at russianmartialart.com and search for faith based martial art you will get some results, for example like this:

    "The Systema operating system as taught by Mikhail and Vladimir is a faith-based operating system. "
    For systema, it has a double meaning in their convoluted philosphy. The first is that is systema is rooted in the 'orthodox christian faith' which is fine if that's what they choose to believe. Fact of the matter is that it has nothing to do with their delusional fighting processes. Second, through this belief structure they advocate humility above all else, pride vanity have no place in systema which is curious when you stop to consider how all systema proponents have reacted to these threads denouncing their chosen path. Is it humility that forces individudals such as RobG and RobP to challenge their critics of their faith, advocating a meeting just so they can silence their heretics? Is it humility or sinful vanity and pride that allows RobP to constantly post videos of his systema classes on various websites to promote himself and the system? Just as we are all aware of RobG's sad display of unchristian-like behavior here a Bullshido flying in the face of systema's religious roots of goodness and the "absence of resentment no matter what happens." These characteristics are in stark contrast to the facade and advocacy of orthodox christianity to which systema purports.

    This quote I believe sums up the questionable state of mental stability of the average systetma cultist describing his experience of attending a church tour with Vlad the Mad -

    “One such instance was during a tour of a magnificent ROC church that had we visited. even the coldest die hard athiest could not deny the beauty, or reverence; that this church held. Everywhere there was beautiful art, icons...even the very floors held the look of a surfaced kept immaculate with loving devotion.

    As our excellent guide was speaking about the restoration of the art that spanned the ceiling of the church -- I noticed that Vlad was missing from the main group. I looked about for him and witnessed as he walked about showing his personal respects for the various stations of devotion along the perimeter of the walls. I could not hear the words of our guide as I watched him, so intent was my concentration on him. The simplest expressions of faith, performed by this humble man...alone and quietly, with such deep devotion registering very clearly on his face...was so beautiful, so human - it brought tears to my eyes, literally. I felt as though, be watching him; I had been touched by a form of faith and reverence that I had long forgotten. It is one of my most touching and treasured memories of the whole trip to Moscow.

    I hope that I have not said too much about this.

    It was just too beautiful not to attempt to share it again.”
    Clearly, this individual in his cult-induced trance has attached such a reverence regarding the object of his worship, the simplest gesture from his spiritual leader is enough to emotionally unhinge the individual follower reducing him to a blubbering idiot. A characteristic more commonly exhibited by the opposite sex.

    Who is this person you may be wondering? None other than our own RobG.
    Last edited by Kungfoolss; 9/10/2006 2:46pm at .
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  7. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 10:25am

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know I’m late to the debate on this one, but I’m going to throw my two pennies in anyway.

    My exposure to Systema is limited to recent exposure to the video clips available on the internet (primarily through Google video), so my comments are made with the following acknowledgements:
    1) Video clips do not have the impact (no pun intended) of actual first hand training experience
    2) I have never knowingly worked with anyone with experience in Systema

    That said, I believe a certain amount of experience will allow an opinion on the material that I saw. I started in TKD as a child, but my training for the past decade has revolved around realistic, street oriented, and effective self defense. I’ve formally studied and achieved various ranks in several martial arts, have informally worked with numerous stylists of vastly different backgrounds, worked as a beat cop for five years (in the 139th largest city in the US – I’ll let you look that one up), taught martial arts professionally, taught self defense to civilians and police officers, taught numerous rape prevention classes and seminars, and instructed officers and civilians (mostly bouncers) in apprehension and control techniques, and designed and effectively used a variety of adrenal stress conditioning drills for training scenarios. I currently study a self defense heavy branch of Kenpo in a school owned by a guy who was a US Navy SERE instructor and taught survival and combat communications to SEALs (he was a seebee, not a SEAL) . This should be noted - I’ve never been a professional fighter or competed in MMA competitions.

    Keeping that in mind, this is strictly an analysis of the material I saw on the internet videos, ranging from the 6 second clips to the longer ones exhibiting workshop footage, knife defenses, et cetera.

    What crap. The mechanics of both the attackers and the defender are remarkably unimpressive. Attacks appeared to be performed with little or no follow through and attackers appeared more than willing to turn their attack into a roll. The pot bellied guy (Ryabko?) is certainly big enough that I wouldn’t want to get hit by those ham-hock fists, but I have trouble with the defenders exaggerating their responses to strikes (or throws) that didn’t touch them. The free-style defending against multiple attackers is a joke. The knife defenses I saw were an absolute disaster and in almost ALL of the techniques (I know it’s not supposed to be a ‘technique’ in Systema, so call them what you will), the defender is bringing the knife right to a vital area (gut) and getting cut during or after the ‘defense’... and they usually leave the attacker with control of the knife. What I think is an attempt at leading (directing an attacker a la aikido) is poorly executed and what I think are supposed to be flow drills with a blade are frightening. The 5+ minute video about defending against a chain is going to get somebody killed - has the defender/instructor ever actually been hit by a chain? As someone who has, it sucks. You can't just drap your arm over it and toss it back at the attacker!

    There are a few things that I did appreciate and, to be fair, I’ll include those as well. Starting a 1:36 (minutes:seconds) on a video clip listed on Google video as Systema the Questions Answered and ending by 1:38 there was a nice little pass and elbow used to reverse an attacker's motion into a throw. Starting at 2:08 and ending by 2:13, there was a lovely tackle defense involving a finger trap and ankle stomp. Neither technique is exclusive to Systema, but how many arts can honestly claim something as exclusive and effective in the same sentence? I wasn’t very impressed at the “hands in the pockets” or “hands behind the back” posture of the defender in that clip – you perform the way you practice, so don’t put your hands behind your back and pretend to casually stroll off once the threat is temporarily halted – but I can understand it as a means of expressing competence. Of course this clip, like any training done in a controlled situation, clearly has an attitude of presumed compliance – the defender obviously knew the attacker was going to attack, regardless of the method of attack. No real way to get around that, I suppose...I won't discuss the commentary of the clip.

    I admit that my experience with Systema is limited to those video clips and I’m not going to make anys claims about the style, but those very video clips, billed as either a ‘marketing video’ or ‘workshop footage,’ leave me with no desire to look any further into the matter.

    I don’t intend for this to be an attack on the system, because EVERY style or system has its own faults and instructors who aren’t particularly effective as poster-children, but if those video clips are the best Systema has to offer they can write off having students with previous self defense MA experience. This is merely my observation of multiple videos which have been publicly posted, presumably to promote Systema. (Good alliteration there, huh?)

    In short - would you really be interested in going to a movie if every trailer you’ve seen was poorly done?
  8. Blatz is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 6:22pm

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    Sorry off topic but...

    I havent read the entire forum posting (just been skimming through the posts and kinda stopped at page 3...I mean 1 - 54, come on :p ) but I was just wondering could someone show me where it says all that stuff about psychic moves, healing punches etc? I have been doing Systema for 8 months now and I have never heard of such things, my instructor would probably laugh at it? Or even better, where can you get those videos? I'm curious as to how Systema is taught overseas (America?), maybe its different to how its taught here (I'm from South Africa).

    Sorry if anything has been discussed already but I'm really curious about it. because after reading all that stuff about psychic powers etc...well, im not surprised why people would think Systema is full of ****.

    What I'm worried about now is there might be some people who say they are proper Systema instructors blah blah and then pulling some McDojo moves and raking in cash from the gullible monkeys. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure there are really good instructors out there but it seems that there are probably bad ones too...but that applies to any martial art school I guess.

    Anyways, thanks again

    P.S. what do you mean by sucker punch? Yep i'm a noob to these terms
  9. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 9:25pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

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    Blatz,

    I didn't use the term, but I believe 'sucker punch' is being used to mean a strike against a target that isn't prepared for it (such as timing your strike to a target's breathing to knock the breath out of them). This is one of the 'tricks' a martial arts instructor can utilize to impress students with limited experience (others can be seen on the videos, including a timing difference trick where the attacker moves at 50% speed while the instructor responds to the attack at 75% speed).

    Regarding the use of "psychic powers" -
    I don't use Youtube, but a number of videos appear to be hosted there. This link is to a "workshop" video called "Toronto 2000" and the "psychic" section is a little more than halfway to the end and titled "Beyond the Physical."
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ma+funny&hl=en


    A couple of videos that display other problems with 'techniques' -
    This link is to a video clip of frighteningly stupid knife defenses:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=systema&hl=en

    The link with the guy teaching "chain defenses" is:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ma+chain&hl=en

    A video at the following link only some quasi-sparring against multiple attackers, which should not impress anyone who's ever seen a street fight with more than 2 combatants, and some knife attack responses here:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=systema&hl=en

    The "Questions Answered" video I mention is here:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=systema&hl=en
  10. gibiore is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 10:15pm


     Style: Delving into MMA...

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatz
    I havent read the entire forum posting (just been skimming through the posts and kinda stopped at page 3...I mean 1 - 54, come on :p ) but I was just wondering could someone show me where it says all that stuff about psychic moves, healing punches etc? I have been doing Systema for 8 months now and I have never heard of such things, my instructor would probably laugh at it? Or even better, where can you get those videos? I'm curious as to how Systema is taught overseas (America?), maybe its different to how its taught here (I'm from South Africa).

    Sorry if anything has been discussed already but I'm really curious about it. because after reading all that stuff about psychic powers etc...well, im not surprised why people would think Systema is full of ****.

    What I'm worried about now is there might be some people who say they are proper Systema instructors blah blah and then pulling some McDojo moves and raking in cash from the gullible monkeys. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure there are really good instructors out there but it seems that there are probably bad ones too...but that applies to any martial art school I guess.

    Anyways, thanks again

    P.S. what do you mean by sucker punch? Yep i'm a noob to these terms
    whats the name of your instructor? I know a guy who studied out there and he said he was the only in south africa and that he was awesome, he showed me a kick ass move to get around a shin block, he trained under sergei right?

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